[Alt-photo] Re: Brushing gelatin on paper

Sun Dec 15 18:40:44 UTC 2013

Keeping my fingers crossed. I can't wait to try, and if successful, I will
try to source a pack of A4 sheets to play during the holidays. 
I will make sure to report back on my findings.

All the best,
Luciano

-----Original Message-----
From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
[mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of
Diana Bloomfield
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 7:28 PM
To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: Brushing gelatin on paper

Oh, great.  Do let us know what happens.  If it works for you, and I don't
see why it shouldn't-- you'll wonder why you ever used a gelatin sizing. :)

Diana

On Dec 15, 2013, at 1:22 PM, Luciano Teghillo wrote:

> 
> Hi Diana,
> 
> After I saw this link (http://www.canson-infinity.com/it/bfk310.asp) I 
> had an illumination, and I found a sample pack of Canson paper for 
> inkjet printing I had and inside I found two A4 sheets of BFK Rives 
> 310gsm. I will give it a try as soon as possible and report back.
> 
> Thanks again,
> Luciano
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On 
> Behalf Of Luciano Teghillo
> Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 7:08 PM
> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
> Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: Brushing gelatin on paper
> 
> Hi Diana,
> 
> I will give it a try if I only could find those types of paper here.
> 
> The Fabriano soft-press you use is textured? Also is it Traditional or 
> Extra White?
> By looking at the Fabriano site there are so many choices...
> Artistico Traditional White:
> http://www.fabriano.com/p/en/22/artistico_traditional_white
> Artistico Extra White: 
> http://www.fabriano.com/p/en/15/artistico_extra_white
> 
> The BFK Rives heavyweight is this one?
> http://www.canson-infinity.com/it/bfk310.asp
> 
> Thanks for the help,
> Luciano
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On 
> Behalf Of Diana Bloomfield
> Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 6:45 PM
> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
> Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: Brushing gelatin on paper
> 
> Hi Luciano,
> 
> This is just my experience, but when I used to size with gelatin, I 
> never felt I got things quite right, and once I started printing-- it 
> worked out
> okay-- no staining-- but I could always see a difference where the 
> gelatin went on too lightly in places.  I suspect the paper I was 
> using was textured enough that the gelatin was never absorbed evenly 
> across the page.  That unevenness always showed up in the final print 
> (enough to bother me, though maybe others didn't notice it).
> 
> And I'm sure lots of people still size their papers for gum, but there 
> are at least two papers out there that I've been using that require no 
> sizing at all (and I've made many multiple layers on prints). Other 
> people on the list use them as well-- which is where I got the 
> information.  I also don't pre-shrink these papers, and have made 
> prints up to 17x17.  Maybe they would be fine bigger, too, but I don't 
> currently have the capability of making bigger prints.
> 
> One of the papers is Fabriano soft-press 140 lb; the other is BFK 
> Rives heavyweight.  I use both, and only just started using the BFK 
> this past year.  They're terrific.  And as long as they keep making 
> these papers the way they're made now, I would never go back to 
> gelatin sizing (or any
> sizing) for gum printing.
> 
> So when I read your description here, it just sounds so time-consuming 
> and tiresome and primitive-- when you really don't need to do it all.  
> Why not try one of these papers, and don't bother with sizing?
> 
> Diana
> 
> 
> On Dec 15, 2013, at 12:30 PM, Luciano Teghillo wrote:
> 
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> I have been looming in the back an enjoyed the wealth of information 
>> all of you share. Of course I have not shared nothing because...well, 
>> I am just getting my feet (actually my paper) wet, as you will see.
>> 
>> I have a question on brushing gelatin on paper. I have prepared the 
>> usual mix of 30% gelatin and kept it at about 45-50 C and brushed it 
>> with a foam brush on the print side of my Fabriano Rosaspina paper.
>> I brushed on two coats, after letting the first one dry for a day. 
>> This morning I was getting ready to harden the paper in formalin but 
>> I had the bad idea of comparing my sheets of paper with a couple of 
>> scraps of papers I have from two previous workshops.
>> 
>> The papers I was using as a comparison where noticeably more yellow 
>> (both Fabriano Artistico, Traditional White) when looked on a light 
>> table, so my doubt is that my paper did not receive enough gelatin. 
>> Of course I cannot be sure because the samples I used for comparison 
>> have been tray sized and not brush sized. Also, for least one, the 
>> gelatin used is similar to Knox (Paneangeli for the Italians), while 
>> I used Photographers' Formulary Hard Gelatin (250 Bloom).
>> 
>> Also when I compare my sized paper against a sheet of the same 
>> unsized paper, I cannot see any discernable difference, even under an 8x
loupe.
>> 
>> When brushing I load the foam brush, and move horizontally, 
>> vertically and diagonally with speed (not quite the same as when you 
>> coat with pigment, but almost), and make sure the brushing is uniform 
>> by looking at the surface from an angle.
>> 
>> Maybe I brush to fast and "pull" the gelatin too much that it does 
>> not get into the paper?
>> 
>> Since I have already wasted and entire set of Fabriano Artistico that 
>> I presume I sized incorrectly, I want to make sure this time I do it 
>> correctly.
>> 
>> Maybe is something totally unrelated to sizing. Maybe I should harden 
>> the gelatin before making a comparison.
>> 
>> I  tried to scan the paper samples (mine and those used as a
>> comparison) it's useless. You can only see the paper ridges and 
>> valleys, but nothing else.
>> 
>> I have posted however two images on a previous test I did. The only 
>> thing different between the two tests is the paper. Everything else 
>> is the same, done on the same day, developed for the same time, etc.
>> 
>> - http://www.lucianoteghillo.com/images/test01.jpg - This paper was 
>> sized by someone else.
>> - http://www.lucianoteghillo.com/images/test02.jpg - This is the 
>> paper I sized on a previous batch.
>> 
>> Feeling frustrated....
>> 
>> Thanks for any help,
>> Luciano
>> 
>> 
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