[Alt-photo] Re: Brushing gelatin on paper

Sun Dec 15 18:38:19 UTC 2013

Hi Diana,

Perfect, thanks. I will see what I can find here.

Luciano

-----Original Message-----
From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
[mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of
Diana Bloomfield
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 7:27 PM
To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: Brushing gelatin on paper

Hi Luciano,

The Rives "heavyweight" that I mostly use is from Talas, in NYC, and it
seems to be 175 gsm.  I've also ordered it from Daniel Smith, though, and
their "heavyweight" is 280 gsm.  So it really seems to vary, but both have
worked fine for me (just the same). This heavier one that you can get may
work equally well. I'd get a few samples, if it's accessible to you and try
it.  The Fabriano Artistico is 140 lb soft-press, extra white.  It's the
only Fabriano I've worked where I got no staining at all with no sizing (and
no pre-shrinking).  I don't pre-shrink the Rives, either.  The soft-press is
somewhat textured, but nothing at all like their cold- or rough-press-- but
compared to the hot-press, it is lightly textured.

Diana

On Dec 15, 2013, at 1:08 PM, Luciano Teghillo wrote:

> Hi Diana,
> 
> I will give it a try if I only could find those types of paper here.
> 
> The Fabriano soft-press you use is textured? Also is it Traditional or 
> Extra White?
> By looking at the Fabriano site there are so many choices...
> Artistico Traditional White:
> http://www.fabriano.com/p/en/22/artistico_traditional_white
> Artistico Extra White: 
> http://www.fabriano.com/p/en/15/artistico_extra_white
> 
> The BFK Rives heavyweight is this one?
> http://www.canson-infinity.com/it/bfk310.asp
> 
> Thanks for the help,
> Luciano
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On 
> Behalf Of Diana Bloomfield
> Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2013 6:45 PM
> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
> Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: Brushing gelatin on paper
> 
> Hi Luciano,
> 
> This is just my experience, but when I used to size with gelatin, I 
> never felt I got things quite right, and once I started printing-- it 
> worked out
> okay-- no staining-- but I could always see a difference where the 
> gelatin went on too lightly in places.  I suspect the paper I was 
> using was textured enough that the gelatin was never absorbed evenly 
> across the page.  That unevenness always showed up in the final print 
> (enough to bother me, though maybe others didn't notice it).
> 
> And I'm sure lots of people still size their papers for gum, but there 
> are at least two papers out there that I've been using that require no 
> sizing at all (and I've made many multiple layers on prints). Other 
> people on the list use them as well-- which is where I got the 
> information.  I also don't pre-shrink these papers, and have made 
> prints up to 17x17.  Maybe they would be fine bigger, too, but I don't 
> currently have the capability of making bigger prints.
> 
> One of the papers is Fabriano soft-press 140 lb; the other is BFK 
> Rives heavyweight.  I use both, and only just started using the BFK 
> this past year.  They're terrific.  And as long as they keep making 
> these papers the way they're made now, I would never go back to 
> gelatin sizing (or any
> sizing) for gum printing.
> 
> So when I read your description here, it just sounds so time-consuming 
> and tiresome and primitive-- when you really don't need to do it all.  
> Why not try one of these papers, and don't bother with sizing?
> 
> Diana
> 
> 
> On Dec 15, 2013, at 12:30 PM, Luciano Teghillo wrote:
> 
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> I have been looming in the back an enjoyed the wealth of information 
>> all of you share. Of course I have not shared nothing because...well, 
>> I am just getting my feet (actually my paper) wet, as you will see.
>> 
>> I have a question on brushing gelatin on paper. I have prepared the 
>> usual mix of 30% gelatin and kept it at about 45-50 C and brushed it 
>> with a foam brush on the print side of my Fabriano Rosaspina paper.
>> I brushed on two coats, after letting the first one dry for a day. 
>> This morning I was getting ready to harden the paper in formalin but 
>> I had the bad idea of comparing my sheets of paper with a couple of 
>> scraps of papers I have from two previous workshops.
>> 
>> The papers I was using as a comparison where noticeably more yellow 
>> (both Fabriano Artistico, Traditional White) when looked on a light 
>> table, so my doubt is that my paper did not receive enough gelatin. 
>> Of course I cannot be sure because the samples I used for comparison 
>> have been tray sized and not brush sized. Also, for least one, the 
>> gelatin used is similar to Knox (Paneangeli for the Italians), while 
>> I used Photographers' Formulary Hard Gelatin (250 Bloom).
>> 
>> Also when I compare my sized paper against a sheet of the same 
>> unsized paper, I cannot see any discernable difference, even under an 8x
loupe.
>> 
>> When brushing I load the foam brush, and move horizontally, 
>> vertically and diagonally with speed (not quite the same as when you 
>> coat with pigment, but almost), and make sure the brushing is uniform 
>> by looking at the surface from an angle.
>> 
>> Maybe I brush to fast and "pull" the gelatin too much that it does 
>> not get into the paper?
>> 
>> Since I have already wasted and entire set of Fabriano Artistico that 
>> I presume I sized incorrectly, I want to make sure this time I do it 
>> correctly.
>> 
>> Maybe is something totally unrelated to sizing. Maybe I should harden 
>> the gelatin before making a comparison.
>> 
>> I  tried to scan the paper samples (mine and those used as a
>> comparison) it's useless. You can only see the paper ridges and 
>> valleys, but nothing else.
>> 
>> I have posted however two images on a previous test I did. The only 
>> thing different between the two tests is the paper. Everything else 
>> is the same, done on the same day, developed for the same time, etc.
>> 
>> - http://www.lucianoteghillo.com/images/test01.jpg - This paper was 
>> sized by someone else.
>> - http://www.lucianoteghillo.com/images/test02.jpg - This is the 
>> paper I sized on a previous batch.
>> 
>> Feeling frustrated....
>> 
>> Thanks for any help,
>> Luciano
>> 
>> 
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