[alt-photo] Re: Preshrinking paper for gum?

Thu Jan 17 23:58:12 GMT 2013

Hey Kurt,

I can never tell if someone is being funny or not (online)-- but, yeah, it's Fabriano soft-press.  ;)

Diana

On Jan 17, 2013, at 6:31 PM, Kurt Nagy wrote:

> So I guess I read wrong at first.  I meant to ask for examples of the press type you use, so "soft" press, not cold press
> 
> 
> 
> On Jan 17, 2013, at 5:12 PM, Diana Bloomfield <dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> 
>> Their cold press is very textured.  I've never tried it.  I like smooth papers for platinum printing, but for gum-- I don't know-- I like a little texture.  So are you doing gum on COT 320, then?  
>> 
>> Diana
>> On Jan 17, 2013, at 5:29 PM, Kurt Nagy wrote:
>> 
>>> Do you have an examples of their cold press?  I like smooth hot press papers, I'm currently using COT 320 and have no issues but I'd like to see what Fabriano looks like.
>>> 
>>> I don't size with COT 320 and get great results (I think)
>>> 
>>> On Jan 17, 2013, at 4:19 PM, Diana Bloomfield <dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Do you mean other papers by Fabriano, or other paper brands?  
>>>> 
>>>> I have tried that on other Fabriano papers, specifically their hot-press and cold press papers. I never liked their hot-press, even when I would pre-shrink and size.  I didn't mind the 300 lb hot-press paper so much, except that it was a bit like chopping wood to make smaller pieces-- but I never liked the 140 lb hot press.  I'm not sure why. Something about the surface, and I also didn't like the way it seemed to get wrinkly after repeated water soaks.   Maybe I just like a bit more texture in my papers.  
>>>> 
>>>> But  . . . with the hot press, I found that the registration was too "off" for me, without first pre-shrinking.  This paper also has a lot of sizing in it, but once it soaks in water, so much of that is lost. For some reason, that's not the case with their soft-press.   If I did not pre-shrink-- the paper, of course, retained all its own sizing-- and so the first coat was great.  The subsequent coats were too mis-registered for me.  When I did size, I sized with a very thin coat of PVA, which I like a lot.  A thin coat just leaves a very slight sheen (not shiny), while still doing the job it's supposed to do.  Still-- using no sizing at all suited me a lot better.
>>>> 
>>>> I tried no sizing with Rives BFK, heavyweight-- but, again, lots of staining-- at least, too much for me.
>>>> 
>>>> I am also not familiar with other "soft-press" papers, labeled as such, though there may be some.  I simply followed Paul's excellent advice and so "discovered" the perfect paper.  And then I promptly stopped looking. 
>>>> 
>>>> Diana
>>>> 
>>>> On Jan 17, 2013, at 4:17 PM, Ricardo Wildberger Lisboa wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Diana,
>>>>> Have you already tried that (not sizing) on other brand's soft-press papers? With what results?
>>>>> Ricardo.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Enviado via iPad
>>>>> 
>>>>> Em 17/01/2013, às 18:36, Diana Bloomfield <dhbloomfield at bellsouth.net> escreveu:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi Ricardo,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> No, I never size it, and I use that paper only for gum printing.  I've printed up to as many as 6 layers, with absolutely no issues.  In fact, I had more issues when I did size.  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I *think* it was Paul Viapiano on the List here who first suggested this paper-- maybe someone else, too-- I can't remember-- but I've been using it now for a long long time, and I've just never had an issue with it.  I've told people about it before, but I think they never hear the word "soft-press," so you have to ensure that you're getting Fabriano soft-press, because (in my experience), the other Fabriano papers (labeled hot press; rough; or cold press) do not work like that.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Diana
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 17, 2013, at 3:17 PM, Ricardo Wildberger Lisboa wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Diana and Denny, thank you for the information.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Diana, you say you don't even size on that paper? Don't you ever size the paper for gum printing?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Ricardo.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Enviado via iPad
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Em 17/01/2013, às 16:30, Kurt Nagy <kakarott76 at hotmail.com> escreveu:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I never preshrink either.  Only issues I have with registration come from my own lining up the negative
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Jan 17, 2013, at 12:18 PM, "Denny" <dspector at charter.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Diana, thanks, "almost seemed pointless" pretty much sums up what I found.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
>>>>>>>>> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>>>> Diana Bloomfield
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2013 10:12 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Preshrinking paper for gum?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hey Denny,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I don't shrink paper anymore--- with the paper I now use-- but back when I
>>>>>>>>> did (and I never did real tests on it like you)-- I realized, at some point,
>>>>>>>>> that the temperature of the water didn't really seem to matter much.   And
>>>>>>>>> really hot water seemed to offer bad results-- bad things happened with
>>>>>>>>> really hot water.   Also, no matter how much I left it in water--
>>>>>>>>> registration was still never perfect-- so it almost seemed pointless.  And
>>>>>>>>> then I discovered the perfect paper that required no pre-shrinking (up to a
>>>>>>>>> certain size), and no sizing-- so I put it all out of my head after that. ;)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Diana
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Jan 17, 2013, at 1:03 PM, Denny wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Folks, I did some simple testing to try to evaluate how to shrink 
>>>>>>>>>> paper, details here:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.dennisspector.com/technotes/preshrink.html
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I was surprised by the results, and I'm wondering if anyone else has 
>>>>>>>>>> looked at this closely, what did you find?  Any noticeable effects of 
>>>>>>>>>> water temperature?  Amount of shrinking?  (I'm sure these vary with 
>>>>>>>>>> different papers, and I know some papers may not require any 
>>>>>>>>>> preshrinking.)
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>> Denny
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo