[Alt-photo] Re: ALT- Lithophane, Wax Molding of Gelatin Relief and Contact Print with Wax Relief

[Mustafa Umut Sarac]

I found vinyl is an option also.

Thus the starting vinyl compound may comprise any of the known
polymerizable organic vinyl compounds, and preferably polymerizable vinyl
monomers, such as acrylonitrile, methacrylonitrile, methacrylic acid,
acrylic acid, acrylamide, methacrylamide, vinyl pyrrolidone, vinyl acetate
methyl methacrylate, calcium acrylate, methyl acrylate, and styrene.

The dyes which may be used in accordance with the invention comprise any
known dyes which are capable of forming a stable system with a reduction
agent in the absence of light, but which will undergo reduction when
irradiated with visible light in the presence of the reducing agent. These
dyes include rose bengal, phloxine, erythrosine, eosin, fluorescein,
acriflavine, thionine, riboflavin, water-soluble and fat-soluble
chlorophylls, hematoporphyrin, etc.

A large number of these dyes are characterized by their fluorescence.

The reducing agents which may be used in accordance with the invention
comprise any known reducing agents which, in combination with the
particular dye in question, will form a stable system in the absence of
light, but which will cause reduction of the dye upon irradiation with
visible light. The reduction potential of the reducing agent should
therefore be less than that necessary to reduce the particular dye in
question in the absence of visible light. These reducing agents include,
for example, stannous chloride, ascorbic acid, glutathione, hydroxylamine,
hydrazine, phenyl hydrazine, dichlorphenyl hydrazine, thiourea, allyl
thiourea, etc.

When the starting compound constitutes a reducing agent itself for the
particular dye in question when irradiated with visible light, as, for
example, in the case of acrylamide and riboflavin, the presence of an addi
tional reducing agent is not necessary, though the same may enhance the
speed of the polymerization. Also in connection with riboflavin the
robosose group may act as a reducing agent.

The polymerization is preferably effected in the presence of oxygen, such
as the ambient atmosphere. It has been found that polymerization proceeds
substantially more rapidly in the presence of this oxygen than when a
portion of the inherently present oxygen has been removed from the
polymerization solution.

The vinyl compound, dye, and reducing agent should be present in a true
liquid system, i.e., in the form of a true solution. As mentioned, in order
to form the coherent, plastic mass, the vinyl compound should preferably be
present in amount of at least 20% by weight of the solution, and the
solution must constitute a solvent for an uncross-linked soluble polyvinyl
compound corresponding to polyvinyl compound formed upon the polymerization
of the starting vinyl compound. In the case where the vinyl monomer is
liquid and constitutes a solvent for the vinyl polymer, as, for example, in
the case of styrene, no additional solvent is necessary.

When, however, the starting vinyl monomer is not in liquid form, as, for
example, in the case of acrylamide, or where the monomer does not
constitute a solvent for such a polymer, as, for example, in the case of
acrylonitrile, it is necessary to use an extra solvent, in which the vinyl
polymer is soluble. Thus, for example, in the case of acrylonitrile, a zinc
chloride solution may be used as a solvent, and in the case of acrylamide,
water may be used as the solvent.




On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 7:12 AM, Mustafa Umut Sarac <
mustafaumutsarac at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello Dave and all,
>
> I think you are writing about black rubber for stamps where they expose
> them with laser. Of course they are not usable for semi transparent
> lithophane medium. I am thinking loud , if they are rubber , its impossible
> to press wax on it. Other hard thing is to remove wax from rubber. It wont
> work. May be large flat colors comes off but micro details would be cracked.
>
> I think we can overcome from using wax and gelatin with using a hard
> silicone or polyurethane or we can match gelatin with these.
> They are cold processed or with little hardener , release less heat. But
> streching is problem and damage the gelatin as I wrote for Woodburytype at
> APUG.
>
> I think after 15 hours of writing I came to same point. We need to consult
> to companies. I love silicon more than PU because it does not fume cyanide
> like PU AFAIK. End product is usable at health medicine concerned business.
> Silicon can be set to very hard and carry ten tones of weight of 1/4 liters
> of it.
>
> I first researched silicon for mold for epoxy guitar parts and owner
> warned me about the high heat of setting for large 6 centimeters thick
> cast. May be 1 centimeters would be more peaceful.
>
> Other thing is to find these polymers ''photo'' versions. I have no idea.
> May be there is cheap photopolymer which can be useful and remove wax ,
> semi transparent polymer and gelatin trio.
>
> If we can find a polymer like it , it revolutionarizes the woodburytype
> and lithophane and carbon processes.
>
> I think any chemistry graduate could help.
>
> Waiting the responses,
> Thank you Dave,
> Umut
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 6:06 AM, Dave S <fotodave at dsoemarko.us> wrote:
>
>> Hmm.... the one supplier I was thinking of is
>> http://www.photopolymerplates.com/
>>
>> The owner, Gene Becker, used to be active on this list; but when I checked
>> the site above, I found that he passed away last year. It is not very
>> clear
>> to me whether the site is still continuing the business. You might want to
>> send an email through the site.
>>
>> But if not, just check youtube on "photopolymer stamps." I am sure there
>> are
>> many other supplies. I imagine that the curve is pretty steep, and given
>> that photopolymer has been used a lot in photogravure, I believe it can be
>> used for continuous-tone image, but the negative must be pretty low in
>> contrast. You can probably test it with a step tablet.
>>
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
>> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf
>> Of
>> Mustafa Umut Sarac
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 9:49 PM
>> To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
>> Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: ALT- Lithophane, Wax Molding of Gelatin Relief
>> and
>> Contact Print with Wax Relief
>>
>> Dave and All , Thank you for comparison , what could be done to get
>> carving
>> like relief from gelatin block. Is it more expose or more sensitizer.
>> Are those two damage the sharpness ?
>>
>> And for photopolymers , what is the color of photopolymer , is it
>> transparent or opaque or colored , half transparent. What is the maximum
>> depth of relief of photopolymers. I need the brand , product and suppliers
>> list.
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Umut
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 4:40 AM, Mustafa Umut Sarac <
>> mustafaumutsarac at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Dave,
>> >
>> > Thank you. My heart goes to wax but your suggestion is excellent and I
>> > had been posted to APUG this morning. Which photopolymers could be
>> purchased ?
>> > And Where from ? Is it silk screening polymer ? I dont know any brand
>> > and product. Please shed some light.
>> >
>> > Thank you ,
>> > Umut
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 4:30 AM, Dave S <fotodave at dsoemarko.us> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Have you checked photopolymer plate? That might make things easy for
>> you.
>> >> You can buy the plate for experiments and if it works,  you can buy
>> >> liquid photopolymer and make your own plates.
>> >>
>> >> Dave
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
>> >> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On
>> >> Behalf Of Mustafa Umut Sarac
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 9:20 PM
>> >> To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
>> >> Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: ALT- Lithophane, Wax Molding of Gelatin
>> >> Relief and Contact Print with Wax Relief
>> >>
>> >> Hello all,
>> >>
>> >> I read cnc cut plastic lithophane tutorial.
>> >>
>> >> http://www.vectric.com/WebSite/Vectric/pvc/docs/Machining_Lithophanes
>> >> .pdf
>> >>
>> >> White plastic requires 2.5 mm relief depth. Is it possible to make 5
>> >> mm thick relief with gelatin ?
>> >>
>> >> Umut
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 3:28 AM, Mustafa Umut Sarac <
>> >> mustafaumutsarac at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Craig ,Thank you .
>> >> > All , is there anybody who knows the depth of relief on wax
>> >> > lithaphone hand carving master ? And can anyone compare gelatin
>> >> > relief to wax
>> >> relief.
>> >> >
>> >> > Umut
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 3:15 AM, Craig Zammiello
>> >> <zamm at optonline.net>wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Umut,
>> >> >> Ah, I see.
>> >> >> Ok, I'm not familiar with these processes. Sounds very interesting.
>> >> >> Best of luck,
>> >> >> Regards, C
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Sep 25, 2013, at 6:54 PM, Mustafa Umut Sarac <
>> >> >> mustafaumutsarac at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Hello Craig ,
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I am after roundness of hand crafted lithophane wax block lit
>> >> >> > from background.
>> >> >> > I know carbon and pyro is after that but I am simplifying the all.
>> >> >> > I am after making deep relief on to wax with using gelatin
>> >> >> > relief and
>> >> >> than
>> >> >> > using wax as my negative on the paper.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > If anyone and you share what you think , I would be glad.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Best,
>> >> >> > Umut
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 1:25 AM, Craig Zammiello
>> >> >> > <zamm at optonline.net>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Hi Mustafa,
>> >> >> >> Not quite sure what you are after... Sounds kind of like a
>> >> >> >> stanotype I think, basically getting rid of the need of a
>> >> >> >> hydraulic press to
>> >> >> create the
>> >> >> >> lead plate of the Woodburytype process.
>> >> >> >> Can you elaborate a bit more on what exactly your end goal is?
>> >> >> >> Is it
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> mechanical printing from a matrix or more-so a photographic
>> >> >> >> chemical reaction using a wax negative?
>> >> >> >> Best, Craig Z.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> On Sep 25, 2013, at 4:38 PM, Mustafa Umut Sarac <
>> >> >> >> mustafaumutsarac at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> Hello ,
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> I am thinking to reach a higher quality with Darwin the
>> >> >> >>> processes. I
>> >> >> was
>> >> >> >>> researching woodburytype , lithophane and carbon and found a
>> >> >> >>> hybrid
>> >> >> way.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> I am thinking to contact print a 6x17cms negative on to
>> >> >> >>> dichromated
>> >> >> >> gelatin
>> >> >> >>> and obtain a relief like carbon. Than pour or press wax on to
>> >> >> >>> it ,
>> >> >> get a
>> >> >> >>> wax block and than contact print with that wax block on to
>> paper.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Does it work and how can I engineer the whole process ?
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> I want a hand carving wax relief and better result than the
>> >> >> >>> negative
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> >>> contact print route.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Thank you,
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Mustafa Umut Sarac
>> >> >> >>> Istanbul
>> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >>> Alt-photo-process-list | altphotolist.org
>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> >> Alt-photo-process-list | altphotolist.org
>> >> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> >> > Alt-photo-process-list | altphotolist.org
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
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>> >
>> >
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>
>