[Alt-photo] Re: ALT- Lithophane, Wax Molding of Gelatin Relief and Contact Print with Wax Relief

Thu Sep 26 06:48:30 UTC 2013

No Umut, I am not talking about rubber. I am talking about photopolymer. It
is an actual polymer plate, presensitized too. You just expose it with UV
light through a negative and "develop" it using water!

It is used in rubber stamping in 2 ways. One is just to use it in place of
rubber stamp. Another way, if someone needs to use the traditional rubber
stamp, is to press the heated rubber against the photopolymer.

Just search on photopolymer, you will find lots of information. 

Here are some of them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swSjOmR47_E

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photopolymer

You mentioned APUG. People there are familiar with photopolymer as well. You
can ask them about it.

But I am not sure if your final desired thing is lithophane or Woodburytype
printing. Woodburytype is a photomechanical process whose aim is for
reproduction. If you are not trying to make lots of reproduction, you might
just make carbon transfer, and the result is the same as Woodburytype!

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
[mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of
Mustafa Umut Sarac
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2013 12:12 AM
To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: ALT- Lithophane, Wax Molding of Gelatin Relief and
Contact Print with Wax Relief

Hello Dave and all,

I think you are writing about black rubber for stamps where they expose them
with laser. Of course they are not usable for semi transparent lithophane
medium. I am thinking loud , if they are rubber , its impossible to press
wax on it. Other hard thing is to remove wax from rubber. It wont work. May
be large flat colors comes off but micro details would be cracked.

I think we can overcome from using wax and gelatin with using a hard
silicone or polyurethane or we can match gelatin with these.
They are cold processed or with little hardener , release less heat. But
streching is problem and damage the gelatin as I wrote for Woodburytype at
APUG.

I think after 15 hours of writing I came to same point. We need to consult
to companies. I love silicon more than PU because it does not fume cyanide
like PU AFAIK. End product is usable at health medicine concerned business.
Silicon can be set to very hard and carry ten tones of weight of 1/4 liters
of it.

I first researched silicon for mold for epoxy guitar parts and owner warned
me about the high heat of setting for large 6 centimeters thick cast. May be
1 centimeters would be more peaceful.

Other thing is to find these polymers ''photo'' versions. I have no idea.
May be there is cheap photopolymer which can be useful and remove wax , semi
transparent polymer and gelatin trio.

If we can find a polymer like it , it revolutionarizes the woodburytype and
lithophane and carbon processes.

I think any chemistry graduate could help.

Waiting the responses,
Thank you Dave,
Umut

On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 6:06 AM, Dave S <fotodave at dsoemarko.us> wrote:

> Hmm.... the one supplier I was thinking of is 
> http://www.photopolymerplates.com/
>
> The owner, Gene Becker, used to be active on this list; but when I 
> checked the site above, I found that he passed away last year. It is 
> not very clear to me whether the site is still continuing the 
> business. You might want to send an email through the site.
>
> But if not, just check youtube on "photopolymer stamps." I am sure 
> there are many other supplies. I imagine that the curve is pretty 
> steep, and given that photopolymer has been used a lot in 
> photogravure, I believe it can be used for continuous-tone image, but 
> the negative must be pretty low in contrast. You can probably test it 
> with a step tablet.
>
>
> Dave
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On 
> Behalf Of Mustafa Umut Sarac
> Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 9:49 PM
> To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
> Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: ALT- Lithophane, Wax Molding of Gelatin 
> Relief and Contact Print with Wax Relief
>
> Dave and All , Thank you for comparison , what could be done to get 
> carving like relief from gelatin block. Is it more expose or more
sensitizer.
> Are those two damage the sharpness ?
>
> And for photopolymers , what is the color of photopolymer , is it 
> transparent or opaque or colored , half transparent. What is the 
> maximum depth of relief of photopolymers. I need the brand , product 
> and suppliers list.
>
> Thank you,
> Umut
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 4:40 AM, Mustafa Umut Sarac < 
> mustafaumutsarac at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Dave,
> >
> > Thank you. My heart goes to wax but your suggestion is excellent and 
> > I had been posted to APUG this morning. Which photopolymers could be
> purchased ?
> > And Where from ? Is it silk screening polymer ? I dont know any 
> > brand and product. Please shed some light.
> >
> > Thank you ,
> > Umut
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 4:30 AM, Dave S <fotodave at dsoemarko.us> wrote:
> >
> >> Have you checked photopolymer plate? That might make things easy 
> >> for
> you.
> >> You can buy the plate for experiments and if it works,  you can buy 
> >> liquid photopolymer and make your own plates.
> >>
> >> Dave
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
> >> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On 
> >> Behalf Of Mustafa Umut Sarac
> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2013 9:20 PM
> >> To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
> >> Subject: [Alt-photo] Re: ALT- Lithophane, Wax Molding of Gelatin 
> >> Relief and Contact Print with Wax Relief
> >>
> >> Hello all,
> >>
> >> I read cnc cut plastic lithophane tutorial.
> >>
> >> http://www.vectric.com/WebSite/Vectric/pvc/docs/Machining_Lithophan
> >> es
> >> .pdf
> >>
> >> White plastic requires 2.5 mm relief depth. Is it possible to make 
> >> 5 mm thick relief with gelatin ?
> >>
> >> Umut
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 3:28 AM, Mustafa Umut Sarac < 
> >> mustafaumutsarac at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Craig ,Thank you .
> >> > All , is there anybody who knows the depth of relief on wax 
> >> > lithaphone hand carving master ? And can anyone compare gelatin 
> >> > relief to wax
> >> relief.
> >> >
> >> > Umut
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 3:15 AM, Craig Zammiello
> >> <zamm at optonline.net>wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Umut,
> >> >> Ah, I see.
> >> >> Ok, I'm not familiar with these processes. Sounds very interesting.
> >> >> Best of luck,
> >> >> Regards, C
> >> >>
> >> >> On Sep 25, 2013, at 6:54 PM, Mustafa Umut Sarac < 
> >> >> mustafaumutsarac at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > Hello Craig ,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I am after roundness of hand crafted lithophane wax block lit 
> >> >> > from background.
> >> >> > I know carbon and pyro is after that but I am simplifying the all.
> >> >> > I am after making deep relief on to wax with using gelatin 
> >> >> > relief and
> >> >> than
> >> >> > using wax as my negative on the paper.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > If anyone and you share what you think , I would be glad.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Best,
> >> >> > Umut
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 1:25 AM, Craig Zammiello 
> >> >> > <zamm at optonline.net>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Hi Mustafa,
> >> >> >> Not quite sure what you are after... Sounds kind of like a 
> >> >> >> stanotype I think, basically getting rid of the need of a 
> >> >> >> hydraulic press to
> >> >> create the
> >> >> >> lead plate of the Woodburytype process.
> >> >> >> Can you elaborate a bit more on what exactly your end goal is?
> >> >> >> Is it
> >> >> the
> >> >> >> mechanical printing from a matrix or more-so a photographic 
> >> >> >> chemical reaction using a wax negative?
> >> >> >> Best, Craig Z.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> On Sep 25, 2013, at 4:38 PM, Mustafa Umut Sarac < 
> >> >> >> mustafaumutsarac at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>> Hello ,
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> I am thinking to reach a higher quality with Darwin the 
> >> >> >>> processes. I
> >> >> was
> >> >> >>> researching woodburytype , lithophane and carbon and found a 
> >> >> >>> hybrid
> >> >> way.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> I am thinking to contact print a 6x17cms negative on to 
> >> >> >>> dichromated
> >> >> >> gelatin
> >> >> >>> and obtain a relief like carbon. Than pour or press wax on 
> >> >> >>> to it ,
> >> >> get a
> >> >> >>> wax block and than contact print with that wax block on to
paper.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Does it work and how can I engineer the whole process ?
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> I want a hand carving wax relief and better result than the 
> >> >> >>> negative
> >> >> to
> >> >> >>> contact print route.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Thank you,
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Mustafa Umut Sarac
> >> >> >>> Istanbul
> >> >> >>> _______________________________________________
> >> >> >>> Alt-photo-process-list | altphotolist.org
> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> >> Alt-photo-process-list | altphotolist.org
> >> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >> > Alt-photo-process-list | altphotolist.org
> >> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >
> >
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