[Alt-photo] Re: choice of paper for Pt and gum over Pt prints - was Re: Re: Replacement paper for Arches Aquarelle

Serdar Bilici sbilici at gmail.com
Sat Mar 1 20:41:41 UTC 2014

My pleasure.

I have observed that Fabriano artistico papers contain the most
alkaline content among the papers I have tested until now. It is very
likely considering the nature of HP papers and extra chalk content of
FA papers, the buffer might be quite condensed inside the paper.
Oxalic acid creates water insoluble  byproduct calcium oxalate
crystals and they effect the absorbency, that might explain the
mottled results. These crystal poke out of thinner papers and some
thin papers practically turn into sand paper. I would advise not to
use FA traditional white with siderotypes, it gives poor dmax (not
horrible, but not very satisfying) with everything I have tested with
or without acid treatment. FA extra white series is wonderful. FAEW
soft press papers very much like BFK rives that you have mentioned are
used without sizing for gum.

Although I wish to try BFK Rives, Stan Klimek sounds very satisfied
with his results too, I cannot find them locally. It seems I must
order sometime to give it a go :)

Best Regards

On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 3:52 AM, Diana Bloomfield
<dlhbloomfield at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks, Serdar.  That's interesting, because the paper I had trouble in pre-treating with oxalic acid was Fabriano Artistico hot press, too-- very mottled and uneven results.   I just gave up trying it with anything else.  But the reason I asked about the Rives, too, is because I've been using BFK Rives heavyweight, for gum printing, with no additional sizing at all.
> So thanks for the additional information and the link here, too.
> Diana
> On Feb 28, 2014, at 6:17 PM, Serdar Bilici wrote:
>> Dear Diana,
>> In parallel to Stan Klimek's experience with BFK Rives printmaking
>> paper, I had superior dMax with printmaking papers (gravure papers
>> specifically) compared to watercolor papers. Printmaking papers unlike
>> watercolor papers have no or very little surface sizing. They are very
>> absorbent due to lack of extra sizing. They retain good amount of
>> sensitizer, but they can be easily abraded due to lack of surface
>> sizing too. Although the idea of better dmax is attractive, the
>> coating requires more care imo.
>> If you read the previous comments on the APUG forum, you will see Stan
>> Klimek was not able to use Fabriano Artistico TW HP 200gsm with oxalic
>> acid treatment. I had the same experience, that particular paper was
>> the reason I looked for an alternative acid to de-calcify papers.
>> Sulfamic acid treatment works with every paper with every alkaline
>> sensitive process and the paper remains free of acid-base reaction
>> byproducts.
>> P.S. - Irving Penn might have de-calcified his papers and even might
>> have re-alkalized his papers after printing. It is not clear according
>> to this informative post on the same blog. There are more interesting
>> articles on Irving Penn and his prints on the blog.
>> https://artofplatinum.wordpress.com/category/irving-penn-2/page/3/
>> Best Regards
>> Serdar
>> On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 6:12 PM, Diana Bloomfield
>> <dlhbloomfield at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Okay; thanks, Denny.  I'll give it a try.  I have no idea why I've had trouble with it-- but maybe I used an incorrect amount.  I love Rives papers, especially for gum, so it would be great to have it for pt/pd, too.  If I have some time, I'll try it today and let you know what happens.
>>> Diana
>>> On Feb 28, 2014, at 11:00 AM, Denny wrote:
>>>> Pretreating with oxalic acid should be trouble-free, just soak the sheets in
>>>> a tray of oxalic acid (I usually use 3%) for about 5 minutes (or until the
>>>> bubbling stops if there's a lot of buffer in the paper) and then just hang
>>>> the sheets to dry.  This works for me with many papers including the 250 gsm
>>>> BFK Rives.
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