[Alt-photo] Re: choice of paper for Pt and gum over Pt prints - was Re: Re: Replacement paper for Arches Aquarelle

Jorj Bauer jorj at jorj.org
Sun Mar 2 12:07:53 UTC 2014

+1 on the sulfamic acid. It's superior to oxalic for this purpose. Both FA and Rives BFK give good siderotype results after being neutralized in a 10% sulfamic bath.

-- Jorj

On Mar 1, 2014, at 3:41 PM, Serdar Bilici <sbilici at gmail.com> wrote:

> My pleasure.
> I have observed that Fabriano artistico papers contain the most
> alkaline content among the papers I have tested until now. It is very
> likely considering the nature of HP papers and extra chalk content of
> FA papers, the buffer might be quite condensed inside the paper.
> Oxalic acid creates water insoluble  byproduct calcium oxalate
> crystals and they effect the absorbency, that might explain the
> mottled results. These crystal poke out of thinner papers and some
> thin papers practically turn into sand paper. I would advise not to
> use FA traditional white with siderotypes, it gives poor dmax (not
> horrible, but not very satisfying) with everything I have tested with
> or without acid treatment. FA extra white series is wonderful. FAEW
> soft press papers very much like BFK rives that you have mentioned are
> used without sizing for gum.
> Although I wish to try BFK Rives, Stan Klimek sounds very satisfied
> with his results too, I cannot find them locally. It seems I must
> order sometime to give it a go :)
> Best Regards
> Serdar
> On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 3:52 AM, Diana Bloomfield
> <dlhbloomfield at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thanks, Serdar.  That's interesting, because the paper I had trouble in pre-treating with oxalic acid was Fabriano Artistico hot press, too-- very mottled and uneven results.   I just gave up trying it with anything else.  But the reason I asked about the Rives, too, is because I've been using BFK Rives heavyweight, for gum printing, with no additional sizing at all.
>> So thanks for the additional information and the link here, too.
>> Diana
>> On Feb 28, 2014, at 6:17 PM, Serdar Bilici wrote:
>>> Dear Diana,
>>> In parallel to Stan Klimek's experience with BFK Rives printmaking
>>> paper, I had superior dMax with printmaking papers (gravure papers
>>> specifically) compared to watercolor papers. Printmaking papers unlike
>>> watercolor papers have no or very little surface sizing. They are very
>>> absorbent due to lack of extra sizing. They retain good amount of
>>> sensitizer, but they can be easily abraded due to lack of surface
>>> sizing too. Although the idea of better dmax is attractive, the
>>> coating requires more care imo.
>>> If you read the previous comments on the APUG forum, you will see Stan
>>> Klimek was not able to use Fabriano Artistico TW HP 200gsm with oxalic
>>> acid treatment. I had the same experience, that particular paper was
>>> the reason I looked for an alternative acid to de-calcify papers.
>>> Sulfamic acid treatment works with every paper with every alkaline
>>> sensitive process and the paper remains free of acid-base reaction
>>> byproducts.
>>> P.S. - Irving Penn might have de-calcified his papers and even might
>>> have re-alkalized his papers after printing. It is not clear according
>>> to this informative post on the same blog. There are more interesting
>>> articles on Irving Penn and his prints on the blog.
>>> https://artofplatinum.wordpress.com/category/irving-penn-2/page/3/
>>> Best Regards
>>> Serdar
>>> On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 6:12 PM, Diana Bloomfield
>>> <dlhbloomfield at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Okay; thanks, Denny.  I'll give it a try.  I have no idea why I've had trouble with it-- but maybe I used an incorrect amount.  I love Rives papers, especially for gum, so it would be great to have it for pt/pd, too.  If I have some time, I'll try it today and let you know what happens.
>>>> Diana
>>>> On Feb 28, 2014, at 11:00 AM, Denny wrote:
>>>>> Pretreating with oxalic acid should be trouble-free, just soak the sheets in
>>>>> a tray of oxalic acid (I usually use 3%) for about 5 minutes (or until the
>>>>> bubbling stops if there's a lot of buffer in the paper) and then just hang
>>>>> the sheets to dry.  This works for me with many papers including the 250 gsm
>>>>> BFK Rives.
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