Judy Seigel (jseigel@panix.com)
Sat, 13 Feb 1999 14:35:05 -0500 (EST)
On Sat, 13 Feb 1999, Steve Shapiro wrote:
>
> I too make fun of Judy's preamble: As stated in Post Factory # ... . But,
> I'm constantly reminded that it's there, and it's the quintessential
> reference.
And so does Judy, obviously, indulge in a certain self-mockery -- but,
please note: she has arguably put more information, solid, reliable,
accessible -- AND by people doing the processes themselves, in authentic,
informed, and *innovative* "reports from the field" -- on this list, FREE
to the world, than all the complainers put together. And she would bet
that, if all the folks who said they were going to footnote Post-Factory
have done so, it's been cited in more other references in just two issues
than all but a handful of "web sites."
Not to mention that Judy, as subscriber to this list, has arguably
contributed as much useful information (even not counting entertainment
value) to this list from year one as any other person, either. But did you
also notice that she has given freely MUCH information from the journal
when the subject arose in list discussion? Even at times when it didn't?
How could she do that, even with 18-hour days? Pop off an address, a
source, an item, an idea, a fact?. True, she often cites the origin...
that's bad? Isn't that part of it? BUT PLEASE NOTE: that's how she can
reel off the information -- it's in a coherent, organized, accessible,
handy form. No need to ppip or hardware handshake, log on, log off, or
download: Just pick it up off the chair, and check the index on page 47.
So what is it, you may ask, that makes anyone want "to puke" at the
mention of this source? Whatever the rationale, I suspect it's the girl
with an organ of publication of her own that sticks in the craw.
Anyhow and meanwhile, let me assure Jeff, & any others who imagine a get
rich quick scheme, that the desire to "make a buck" is hardly it. In fact
each issue I mail puts me at least $1.50 in the red, because the cost to
print equals the cover price. And that's giving my labor,those 18-hour
days, free.
I will further suggest that others with like publications -- at least the
ones I know -- also donate their labor free, and just barely break even,
if that. In fact, if you know anyone "making a buck" on a good
independent venture of this sort, I hope you'll reveal. Well, I was going
to say I'll go take lessons, but that's not the point. It would certainly
bolster my self esteem if I could cover expenses, but I ASSURE you I could
take my talents, such as they are, and make a better buck elsewhere in a
fraction of the time.
But as you FORCE me to say yet again, to my mind the print format is
superior for all the purposes of P-F, except showing the work in color. I
cherish the thought that the b&w illustrations do give a good indication,
but Post-Factory is NOT about display. It's about information, ideas and
reading. Not everyone will agree that print format works better here --
some folks don't like to read anyway, but if we were all the same we would
only need one person in the world, right?
Meanwhile, the suggestion seems to be that anyone who puts a price on
their labors in this field is venal. That it should all be, as I recall
Jeff's words "free and available to all." Let me suggest that if that
were applied across the board there would be precious little information
of value. True, many of us labor for the joy of discovery, as I certainly
do -- but somewhere along the line, folks have to eat and get in out of
the rain. And Jeff said he thought the web page would leave "more time
for our art." Are you selling your art, Jeff?
I'll add that we ran a thread in this vein in year one. Claude Seymour,
as I recall, argued that knowledge should be free.... speaking against
copyright and patents, as I recall. Yet he himself so far as I know had
contributed damn-all to the free knowledge he wanted. (See the archive,
probably circa 1996.)
But I'm starting to feel like Errol Flynn in one of those swashbuckler
movies -- 10 Frenchmen with swords are chasing him up the stairs as he
clickety click backwards wards off all at once. Of course he walks off
insouciantly at the curtain, and I'm not so certain of that denouement.
But from telling P-F writers to publish elsewhere, to saying they could
*puke* at the reference ... not to mention other slings & arrows in this
venue... I get the feeling that at least a few knives are out....
They say there's no such thing as bad publicity, but I see the list
demonizing mention of a good resource ("quintessential", oh thank you
Steve) in a good format. Is KOL demonized? Is Luis reproached for not
putting his info "free & available" on the web? Nobody is damning Carl and
John Bernier, among others frequently cited here, who have written,
presumably for money, for Photo Techniques, which is not usually given
away free, and most probably does make a buck. But that, I ASSURE YOU, is
from advertising. Post-Factory takes no ads, for reasons too obvious to
state.
and so forth,
Judy
> Except for the history of rural development, art colonies and the beginning
> of the Arts and Crafts movement; which is aptly covered in MY photo/history
> of Carmel, California; "Carmel - A Timeless Place" by Steve Shapiro
> available through Barnes and Noble or if you're in the area, the Thunderbird
> Bookstore.
>
> Without such footnotes, we scholars for the sake of accurate information in
> the pursuit of knowledge would be flounders.
>
> Steve Shapiro, Carmel, CA
>
>
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