From: Steve Shapiro (sgshiya@redshift.com)
Date: 06/23/01-03:13:03 PM Z
Double shucks, I wish he'd send them to me. I'm always in trouble with
money for subscriptions ... but my lab bill is paid!
S. Shapiro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Judy Seigel" <jseigel@panix.com>
To: <alt-photo-process-l@skyway.usask.ca>
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2001 1:05 AM
Subject: Livick
>
> On Fri, 22 Jun 2001, Callie Type wrote:
>
> > The Bostick and Sullivan Forum Moderator I am talking about is Stephen
> > Livick, who mentioned publically that after Judy did not respond to
> > criticisms (regarding advice she published on gum printing) he had made,
> > decided all future issues of the Post Factory Journal would go unwrapped
> > "into his trash can where they belong".
>
> Oh shucks, I would have paid the postage to have them returned. I've run
> out of issues #1 & 2 & very expensive to reprint (tho I will, I am).
>
> However, here's another reality check: Did anybody on this list ever
> *ever* EVER see me not responding to criticisms, questions, issues, ideas,
> challenges, facts, or even just plain curiosity about gum printing?????
> In fact, I respond to a fault.
>
> So that statement, as far as I can tell or am aware, is pure invention.
> When, where and how Livick is supposed to have made those "criticisms," I
> can't imagine. Why, or how the issue arose in his forum, I have no clue
> either. As far as I know, he never made any criticisms about anything I
> ever said about gum printing -- I would have been delighted/ thrilled if
> he had. (Until I saw his manual, I considered him the great god of gum.)
> Perhaps someone in the forum quoted me, or asked about something I've said
> on this list or in Post-Factory, or in some way suggested me as competing
> "authority." I mean it's hard to believe he volunteered that cold turkey
> -- though the whole thing is so bizarre, who knows?
>
> > this behavior seemed a bit churlish, the "archives" were altered,
removing
>
> Yes, churlish is the right word, especially given the actual history. I'd
> been a great admirer of Livick's gum prints, in fact in the early days of
> this list I declared him one of the greatest living gum printers, if not
> the greatest. I'd had his address from a Canadian curator, and when I sent
> out the first Post-Factory, April '98, mailed one to him. Practically by
> return mail, I got a subscription check AND a great pack of his catalogs,
> prints, samples of actual sections of prints, and general resume info. I
> was so thrilled, I phoned Canada. I may have spoken only to his wife (this
> I don't recall), but I said I would surely put him in Post-Factory. And so
> I had planned.
>
> As it turned out however, an avalanche of early content delayed the gum
> issue til now, and then there was such a (marvelous) backlog of material,
> it had to be 2 issues. By the time I re-established contact with Livick it
> made most sense to schedule him for Issue #7. We exchanged what I thought
> were a number of cordial emails, and I apologized for not having visited
> his new website. (As some perhaps know, one of my several failings is
> trouble with websites.)
>
> I also bought both his book and his video, total maybe $57 including
> postage. I figured I'd learn a lot, and it would be important for the
> article. Alas, I found his book on gum printing a grave disappointment --
> to put it mildly. Firstly, there were several statements that I knew for
> a fact (from my own tests) were not true. Then I found the information
> given totally inadequate. For instance, I don't think a supposed manual
> that says only "I use the gum from Photographers Formulary or Bostick &
> Sullivan" is doing right by the reader. What gum is that? Then, though he
> told the exact number of seconds for each soak of a coat, he never
> mentioned exactly what the mix was -- how much of which color to how much
> gum and sensitizer. Or even (as I recall) a given exposure.
>
> The book ($29) had very few pages (from memory, I'd say 46) of which about
> every 5th or 6th page was blank, with something like "Gum Dichromate
> Notes" printed across the top, tho the paper was so glossy the only way to
> write on it would be with ink. The margins were wide, and type large, with
> double spacing. Which is to say, very little actual text -- right or
> wrong.
>
> Then, he mentioned various operations with rather skimpy description and
> NO ILLUSTRATION OR DIAGRAM. In fact the only illustration in the entire
> book was the cover with a print of his on it (and maybe some of his prints
> at the end, I forget now). This from memory after maybe 10 months; if I
> locate the book, I'm bound to find more. In sum, however great Livick's
> actual prints, this was the worst gum manual I'd ever seen. But do not
> imagine his calumny on the forum stems from my response to the book. I
> said nothing.
>
> Meanwhile, how could I handle this? It's my great pleasure to (sincerely)
> swoon over the work I publish. Could I show his work and just omit the
> manual? I guess I could, but the prospect made me uneasy (rightly as it
> turned out). I've thought maybe there's more in the disk, which probably
> runs on Quicktime or like that. I haven't seen it, at least not yet. There
> just aren't enough hours in the day, in case anybody reading this doesn't
> know.
>
> Now I shall simply gather up the entire pack of material, which has
> occupied a chair at my dining table-computer office these 3 years, and
> send it back. Problem solved.
>
> However, the business about throwing out all subsequent issues is also
> bizarre -- there were articles about all sorts of things by all sorts of
> people. Even folks who aren't photographers get interested.
>
> best,
>
> Judy
>
>
> > all traces of his remarks, as well as the supportive remarks added by
> > members of the forum. Thank heavens Livick and his brand of hypocrisy
has
> > finally been chased away from Sullivan's group!
> >
> > I'm happy for you that you can forgive Dick's indiscretions. Many of us
> > can't. I sincerely wish he could be the rational individual you think
he
> > is. I, for one, would like to be his customer again.
>
>
>
>
>
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