dsbryant@telocity.com
Date: 06/25/01-04:05:10 PM Z
Kerik,
> if I believed every movie review I read, I'd never go to the movies!
Less than 30% of the population does go out to a movie frequently, and those may be the ones that don't read <s>.
>Nothing like a little hands-on to help make your own decisions.
About the time I was going to purchase some Palladio paper they had stopped production. It was also at that time that I read mixed and negative reviews of their paper.
>I for one would like to see a machine-made platinum paper like Palladio come back on the market.
Why?
> What do you think Frederick Evans et al, printed on 100 years ago?
I think he printed on factory made paper. Perhaps if he had known how to hand coat he wouldn't have retired from the medium, but what Evans did doesn't apply to what we do today, I don't think.
>To my knowledge, there were very few, if any, hand-coaters back then simply because it wasn't necessary.
There may have been few handcoaters of plat/plad then but surely handcoating wasn't unknown then. Apparently the knowledge of producing palladium salts and the understanding of the process in general was lost for various reasons except for a handfull of individuals, thus the process languished until its revival in the 60s.
>They went to their local photo-shop and had a wide variety of platinum papers to choose from.
Well we still have no platinum coated to choose from, and that is the basis of my point, it isn't economically feasable to manufacture and market that paper.
> I did use Palladio quite a bit when I was first testing the alt-waters over 10 years ago. While I soon went on to hand-coating exclusively, Palladio paper was very capable of very high quality prints and the results I got with it were really what drew me deeper into the alt-arena. When I started teaching workshops about 5 years ago, I would begin the workshop with everyone making a small platinum print on Palladio.
The quick feedback REALLY got people excited about what they were about to learn. After teaching roughly 100 people to print platinum over the last few years, my experience is that a relatively small percentage take the full leap and commitment to hand-coated platinum printing or other alt-processes.
Many workshop attendees are simply there to learn something new and decide if it's a path they want to take with their work. I'm pretty sure that there are quite a few of those that would use a machine-coated paper to make platinum prints on occaision when the mood str!
But can a 100 people support a business of producing this product?
> series of images that would be best presented that way. I see nothing wrong with that. Just another tool to get work done. What counts in my opinion is the final piece of art, not the "lookie-what-I-did" factor.
Well perhaps.
> My understanding from Sura Steinberg was that the struggle they had toward the end was getting the paper base made to their specifications. The mill they had used for years was bought by a much bigger company that didn't see enough profit to justify meeting their strict production requirements. I believe that was much more of a contributing factor to the demise of Palladio than the paper being "rejected by the market".
Kerik if there had been a demand their would have been an incentive for them to continue manufacture of Palladio. The economies of scale were not there. Please don't misunderstand, I don't have anything against the Palladio people.
> Yes, Palladio paper was expensive and yes it changed several times over the years, mostly for the better in my opinion. I was saddened to hear when they finally pulled the plug because I think it's for our common good to have companies like Palladio, B&S, Artcraft Chemicals, First Reaction, etc. around to provide a variety of tools for our craft and to spread the alt-process word.
I'm all for the little guy, I've got literature from them, I wanted to try their products but they couldn't make it work. If companies like AGFA can't produce an amazing tried and proven product like APX 25 film then I see little hope for a manufacture of an extremely niche product in the photo industry, but I hope they prove me wrong!
>Most of the criticism I've heard about Palladio over the years has come from "Holy Grail" type printers who think their way is The Way. Who wants to listen to them anyway???
I don't know who "the Holy Grail" printers are. I prefer to listen to people that are in my opinion more knowledgeable than I am, such as yourself but in my opinion you can kiss Paladio paper good bye for the reasons I have listed.
>
> My best wishes to Sura and the folks at Palladio. I hope they find a way to get their product back on the market. If anyone thinks it's not "alt" enough, fine - don't buy it!
>
I never said it wasn't alt enough, but if one is going to invest time and money into using a material with an uncertain supply then investing in the time and expense of learning to coat ones own paper is just part of the learning curve. Wasn't it Conrad Hilton that said something like, "If you want to sail big boats you have to wade into deep water!". Now I may be standing on my tippy toes while wading but I accept the requirements.
Cheers,
Don Bryant
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