Re: Looking for gum printers who use powder pigments

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From: Judy Seigel (jseigel@panix.com)
Date: 09/21/01-12:06:14 PM Z


On Fri, 21 Sep 2001, Lukas Werth wrote:
>
> My burnt sienna from Kremer, for instance, is noticably coarser than the
> one in the tube of W&N - on the whole, it works well, but for some
> applications I also prefer the finer pigment.

Reading this thread I come to suspect that in the matter of dry pigment,
like gum printing across the board, no generalisations are posssible. For
instance, I was assured by Sam Golden (I think name was Sam, the owner of
the company) of Golden Paints at a CAA conference that the dry pigment is
*exactly* the same "grind" as the pigment in tube paint -- what you mull
it for is to disperse the pigment particles in the gum, that is, surround
*each* pigment particle with gum, because if several clump together it
prints coarser. I myself couldn't get anything as smooth as tube paint
with the mulling but maybe I gave up too soon.

On the other hand, from what Lukas, Andre, & others say, it seems likely
that dry pigment bought from, say Kremer, is not the same grind as in this
or that tube, or even anybody's tube, or the same as others' dry pigment
either. Gamblin, Winsor Newton, Grumbacher et al, put out dry pigments
under their own brand, odds are from different factories. I still have a
dozen pigments from some German co. bought in Basel in 1961 -- doesn't it
figure that all are different?

And on the third hand, my own personal limited experience suggests that
pigment staining is more related to additives in the paint or other
materials in the combo than size of the particle. We don't know what
additives or "dispersal agents" were in Kuhn's tube paint, or how much
coarser (if any) the powder pigments he bought were. We only know that he
found that his mix with dry pigment stained less than his mix with tube
paint. We also don't know if he changed another variable at the same time
-- eg changed paper or sizing.... hindsight about that has caused me to
retract significant "findings" on quite a few occasions.

Meanwhile, I've just never gotten the delicate tones in gum with dry
pigment I get with tube paint. It's entirely possible I don't grind long
enough... but I gotta tell ya, it seems like an eternity.

> Spinel black is my black of choice.

Sigh (again)... As Lukas noted in his casein article (P-F #6), it didn't
work for me with gum. I couldn't get more than a pale grainy tan out of
it... But really, I should have known, because the moment I throw ANYTHING
out (this IS a city apartment with just so much shelf space!) even
something I didn't use for 20 years, I need it immediately... I'd like to
try it again... It may be the difference between casein & gum -- or other
(I know more about the variables now).

Lukas, have you ever tried the Spinel with gum as a colloid? Has
anybody???

Meanwhile, I have been using Winsor Newton Lamp Black in the tube -- a
fair black without staining on certain papers, tho it flakes in a strong
mix. When it's a top layer it comes across stronger.

And as noted, I find cost a minor factor in tube paint if you buy the
large tube (and don't mix extra emulsion that you throw out)... The
amounts of paint even in a large print are small (Maybe more with carbon
printing where the coat is thicker ??). I've never managed to use up an $8
or $10 15 ml tube in less than a year, even my 3 main colors. I tear up $3
worth of paper all the time.

Judy


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