From: Diana H. Bloomfield (dlhbloom@mindspring.com)
Date: 08/21/02-12:12:40 PM Z
Well, I wasn't going to add any more to this conversation, because I
know people are tired of it and I'm probably out of my league here.
However, I really wanted to say 'Amen' to Judy's earlier statements.
Not to get too far off-topic, but I believe there's been a trend in this
country over the last 15 years (at least) for teachers--elementary
school on upwards--to approach teaching in a totally non-critical way.
That's one of the reasons schools are producing students who can't write
a complete coherent sentence (forget lyrical) if somebody stuck a gun to
their heads. This non-critical approach permeates many (hopefully, not
all) of our traditional schools, ballet schools, art schools, creative
writing programs, etc. Sure, students get to graduate with plenty of
confidence and the wonderful freedom of expressing life (and how they
experience it) through their chosen art form, but I believe this
non-critical approach has done them no favors.
While positive and constructive criticism is obviously preferable, many
teachers worry about "stifling" students, and so they offer glowing,
often non-deserved tributes-- or silence. And as Judy says, if a student
can't accept (in a closed classroom) some harsh and seemingly "unfair"
criticism that's not sugar-coated, then yes, another profession might be
advisable.
On a related note, Shannon mentioned in one of her e-mails, "maybe these
things HAD been done before. But if they had, whose fault was it that
these students didn't know about this work?" Well, I wouldn't like to
assign fault here, but I sure think a large part of that responsibility
rests with you, the student. Take some responsibility for discovering
some of this art history on your own. I also don't believe in
spoon-feeding students, wrapping up everything neatly in a nice big
package for them.
And I won't even touch the topic of how everything, with the exception
of art(?) is commerce. Or did I mis-read that statement?
-Diana
Jack Fulton wrote:
>
> What Judy writes is quite subjectively true and honest and based upon many
> years (oh, come on, not 100) of experience. Yet, all of us, hold such
> subjective truths. Perhaps it might be wise to learn to be a lawyer but my
> "hope" has been for there to be four "R's": Readin, wRitin, aRithmetic and
> aRt. If Art were as seriously taught as fundamental to what it is to be
> sentient being, I truly believe we'd ALL be better off for it. So, screw
> those lawyers.
>
> Maybe it is the way I was brought up, perhaps the country environment I
> grew up in (Marin County . . now very elite and sub-urban(e) ). It might
> have been my teachers in high school, who were fantastic, or the
> equivalently interesting folks I went through school with. Perhaps it was
> the period of Beatniks (seeing Ginsberg getting arrest . . and Lenny Bruce
> too .. for saying 'fuck' in public), or Eric Hoffer, or being a hippie or UC
> Berkely's Free Speech or, or KennedyKingXKenddedy assasinations, the VN war
> . . who the .... knows. But, to be understanding and liberal and as one ages
> to know we all basically experience the same stuff but react differently has
> made me one of those teachers who crit with positive notions and
> semi-critical words at times. I am more interested in how each individual
> sees life as it is experienced and how manifestations of what they thik are
> presented. I wish to encourage them to pursue the field of Art because I
> wholly believe it is the only thing in this world that is worth a shit. The
> rest of it is commerce . . well, I don't mean to toss out family nor love
> nor love of Nature . . but, they inform the Art.
> And, Judy, I know how you are about those nudes and Ed etc. and there has,
> indeed been history prior about all that . . it was that I feel Ed's work
> can be seen in the light of objectivity. He was interesting to me for his
> subjective objectivity. Or, is that objective subjectivity? Photography is
> good at that if one has no fear to practice and don't hide that under the
> guise or mire of pretension.
> These conversations are good for this list . . some ultimately become
> tired of it because they wish the super tech tricky truths of alternative
> methodology . . but to me a good round about wandering conversation amongst
> us all is one healthy jolt for the mind and aids the search for the how and
> the why in alternative methodology.
> Jack Fulton
>
> > I think one question we could do a little more on is just what IS the role
> > of the teacher. For instance, every year our schools turn out more MFAs
> > than there were artists in all of Renaissance Italy. Maybe if they
> > discourage a few from going on, they're doing the art ecology a favor.
> > Not to mention that if the student is so easily led and discouraged, they
> > don't perhaps have what it takes to survive (let alone succeed) in an
> > artworld that is grueling, corrupt, thankless and totally narcissistic.
> > The only crueler profession I'd say is dancer -- there, besides the
> > competition, is the fact that the dancer is *old* at 30.
> >
> > I myself went to the best schools, or considered so, and then to graduate
> > school. In all of it I only had one teacher who encouraged, let alone
> > inspired me. As an undergraduate 100 years ago (at Cooper Union), I was
> > beaten up & down by teachers who mocked me and made constant cutting
> > remarks... nothing I could do was praised beyond "this looks like you
> > knocked it off before breakfast." (Honest, word for word -- and clearly it
> > still stings.) The worst was in advertising design and another in
> > illustration. I went on as an illustrator to be in every commercial annual
> > that existed... Illustrators, Art Directors, Graphis, etc.... At the time
> > the thought occurred to me that they felt some competitiveness... It
> > seemed awfully far-fetched, but it did help salve the wounds.
> >
> > But again, when the children of friends or the friends of my children
> > asked me "should I be an artist," my answer was always, if you can ask
> > that question the answer is "no." If you feel you can live a fulfilled
> > life doing something else, for gods sake run for the exit. (I gave the
> > same answer when the students the age of my children at grad school asked
> > if they should have children.)
> >
> > So whatever their unconscious or even conscious motives, these "that's
> > been done" teachers may be doing the right thing. Whoever is so easily
> > demoralized by lack of strokes, is better off at law school.
> >
> > A couple of other comments:
> >
> > Perhaps my most talented and successful student ever, says blithely that
> > as far as she's concerned, if she hasn't done it, it hasn't been done. Jon
> > says that too... And what anyway is "been done" ? The subject? The
> > human body has been done. Are we to cross that off? We haven't done THESE
> > human bodies. I was told "street photography has been done." Not these
> > streets NOW. And Jack, Edward Weston did NOT invent the naked lady, or
> > prefigure ANYTHING along those lines. Take a look at Frizot -- or any
> > history of the nude. You'll find far better by Anonymous. One difference
> > of course was that those were frankly erotic -- a refreshing honesty,
> > instead of artsy farce.
> >
> > Finally in grad school I had one inspiring teacher... he did a lot of
> > blather, but about 15% was pure gold... which lasts a lifetime without
> > tarnishing. His comment/question to the class was to avoid photographing
> > something because it looks lke a "photograph"... That's like what Diana
> > says about pre-validation.
> >
> > But Shannon, & company, I sense with all due respect for the brain death
> > of these so-called teachers, and the idiocy of insisting students do
> > something "new" whether or not it has been done --- photography of the
> > self, with cellophane or without, with raimant or without, seems to be
> > turning into a an attempt at therapy. Watch it. Photography is not
> > psychotherapy, group therapy, or whine patrol made visible. It's a visual
> > art form.
> >
> > But I don't need to wait for answers about the class mix. And the number
> > of female professors.
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