From: Claudia Lorenz (clorenz@telusplanet.net)
Date: 08/22/02-09:58:07 AM Z
faggots???
can someone remind me what the purpose of this list is?
Claudia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Judy Seigel" <jseigel@panix.com>
To: <alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca>
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: Warning: photographer in training, please reduce speed ahead.
>
> On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Tillman Crane wrote:
>
> > my teaching philosophy is..
> >
> > Everything has been done..but it doesn't count until its been done by
you.
> > By mastering your craft and stealing from the best, your own vision
> > and ideas will emerge
> >
> > Just do what you want and eventually the rest of the world will catch
> > up with you. If you are always following or finding trends your own
> > voice will be lost..
>
> I think I attributed these comments to Jon -- sorry Tillman -- tho maybe
> they were his, too. Anyway, well said.... ESPECIALLY for students. I
> used to try convincing students depressed because their teachers were
> insisting they come up with their own "coherent body of work," a finished
> theme, project or style, when that wasn't what they felt ready or eager to
> do. I tried to assure them that this was absurd over-reaching for the ego
> of the teacher to show they were teaching "professional level." School IMO
> is SUPPOSED to be a time for experiment and trial, not for turning out
> (only or mostly) polished work, which of course closes off so much else.
> Better to have it ragged, exploratory and learning.
>
> I think I should add that my own experience with the cutting remarks of
> teachers long ago was not typical of what I've seen since then. Certainly
> at Pratt both as a student and later as teacher I sensed a great bond of
> camaraderie and support, at times perhaps excessive (IMO)... There were
> exceptions, of one teacher in particular who wanted students to work in
> their style, but this was NOT the rule. And I myself never heard or heard
> of any teacher saying "that's been done."
>
> Plus of course as someone pointed out, it's the responsibility of the
> teacher, through intelligent presentation of "current critical concepts,"
> or a course so conceived to give the student that info & let them choose
> accordingly.
>
> My own solution to this was simple. At the end of the semester I shot a
> couple of rolls of the strongest student work & incorporated it into a
> couple of carousels of "history of non -silver" which I showed at the end
> of the first class (after showing them the gram scale and describing
> graphically what would happen to those who didn't empty their trays, or
> smoked in class.)
>
> The history began with Talbot, Bayard, Cameron, the Pictorialists (taken
> from books and a history series out of MoMA), & continued with the
> "moderns," Betty Hahn, Robert Fichter, Darryl Curran, Christopher James,
> etc., but over the years most current art from "the books" was replaced by
> work of former students... It was probably stronger and it meant much more
> to them to see what their own schoolmates had done, some of them still
> visible or known on campus.
>
> My course was a required course (tho I told them & told them it should be
> elective) and in the early days gum, for instance, was considered arcane,
> obscure, and, um, only faggots print gum. Seeing stunning prints by their
> predecessors, some known to be adequately "virile" (whatever their
> affective preference) was a marvelous first step in breaking down the
> barrier. Later of course the processes, especially gum, had gotten
> trendier, and even the jock types were interested at the outset.
>
> So don't take my comments about Shannon's teachers possibly doing students
> a favor to turn them off the field to mean I approve of their attitude.
> (And I certainly wouldn't say that about "working class kids" just trying
> to get a BA, as she now describes them.... rather than kids with the
> notion that photography is a fun job & you get to sleep with the models.)
> It occurs to me that this kind of thing might be a difference between
> "good" schools & not so good -- tho that's another topic.
>
> In any event, that's NOT teaching. Teaching is you expose them to concepts
> without heavy breathing, in the normal course of discussion -- you mention
> in a matter-of-fact way that this work is along the lines of so & so's
> who's showing at the thus & such gallery, or has a new book out, why do we
> "like" (or not like) it & what do we think of the differences. Then they
> are horrified or delighted & say or don't say, why they always wanted to
> do that & choose or muddle through accordingly... But for a teacher to
> try to persuade a student to work or not work in a given style is the
> equivalent of a driving teacher teaching them to drive drunk. I mean a
> teacher sensing an affinity directs the student to study the work it's
> related to or derived from. To simply say "it's been done --" frankly
> Shannon, are you sure you don't exaggerate?
>
> There's also the fact, I'd say guarantee, that by the time a teacher has
> taken his/her schtick to a tenured position it's already passe (DONE &
> DONE!) or for sure will be by graduation. I also found that little
> education about styles (only major outlines) had to come from me --
> students picked it up by looking at the work on the wall for class crits &
> from magazines, gotten from the library or otherwise & avidly shared. It
> was amazing how much came in by osmosis -- even if I tried to keep it out,
> I couldn't !
>
> In fact my own experience as student AND teacher is that most of what a
> student learns in school is from fellow students, in small casual even
> invisible ways they teach each other... by example, comment, question, or,
> like Picasso says, theft.
>
> (And that, BTW [another digression] is why you get an MFA !!! But it has
> to be a "good" school, otherwise it's just another nervous breakdown
> waiting to be born.)
>
> Of course since I was teaching a process course my responsibility was
> technique. I could afford the luxury of reticence about style. But the
> kids were VERRRRRY savvy, and often more aware of hotshots & trends than
> the teachers. I myself would never have said "this is bad," meaning
> aesthetically. I might say this is a MESS, you are undercutting your own
> idea with the execution, and invite class comments about reason for the
> mess (or even for success of the mess)...but what is the point in shaming
> a student for lack of talent or wit?
>
> Actually, I tried not to grade on talent, which they were born or not born
> with & couldn't take credit for. I tried to grade on effort... and,
> surely there's not a teacher in the world who hasn't seen the class
> "dummy" hang in, burrow away, struggle and suffer, and whoa, turn into a
> butterfly (or fill in your own metaphor from nature).
>
> cheers,
>
> Judy
>
>
>
>
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