From: William Marsh (redcloud54@earthlink.net)
Date: 08/31/02-01:46:39 AM Z
I wonder if anyone else has related the portraits or "types" of August
Sander to the nude. His work always seemed one step away from nudes, to
me - direct, unadorned, like you were seeing the person beneath the
clothes, or into the person somehow. The only other time I have gotten
that kind of feeling was with Avedon's "West" work, sort of, though he
carries along alot of other baggage that complicates matters to an
extent that Sander does not.
Just a thought.
Bill
Jack Fulton wrote:
>
> > Jack, I would also be interested in hearing those comments you're suppressing
> > on Bellmer. Several names are popping up in this discussion which are of
> > interest to me. Specifically, Francesca Woodman and Bellmer. I'll add an
> > interest in the work of Vera Lehndorff (Veruschka) too.
>
> Joe:
> I was not suppressing my thoughts on Bellmer. I mean, he is interesting.
> Theoretically, those "Poupeé" images of his two famous hand-made dolls are
> anti-fascist statements. He was called degenerate but thought the 3rd Reich
> to be so . . more than he I suppose.
> The works are interesting one must admit but there is, for me at least,
> hidden (or obvious) in there a creepy fascination of the young girl being
> the seductress. We find this best put in Lolita by Nabakov in my mind. One
> might even make a case for the child in Las Meniņas by Velasquez as being
> not only curious but seductive. Anyway, I don't like it. I also didn't like
> it when I first saw them as a young man. Bellmer just simply turned me off.
> It was Kertesz's hand through the ship's ventilator that got my head turned
> . . .and, Brandt. When I first saw Brandt's nudes @ SF Mus.. o f Mod Art in
> the 50's, they were large . . maybe the 16x20 size . . it's a long time ago.
> But, they were erased, goached, penciled, scraped w/a razor. He'd used
> techniques outside the realm of the print which was supposed to be 'the way'
> in my SF Bay Area legacy from Ansel, Ed, Wynn, Morley, Imogen, etc. etc. But
> Brandt's work just stiffed me right there and I've never been the same.
> Berhardt's work is frilly and silly and touches on the creature perhaps as
> being a fawn-like innocent.
> Bellmer is hung up on his own libido and thereby transfers his lust to the
> disconnected contorted woman-child with limbs not only akimbo but in limbo
> where Bellmer actually belongs.
> Francesca Woodman is close to that. The angel who would like to be whisked
> away. The tart with a heart. The charm with smarm. Innocent . . no. You
> gonna get yo jelly mama when my head is mighty red?? Nope. Not for me. I
> want real and direct and true and not that frilly frothy tableau.
> Verushka is more real to me. A person self made in the world of the
> falsely made. Her last work w/that German mate of hers, where he or they
> painted her to look just like the background is, again, for me, idea
> oriented and the nude being covered by the paint is an illusionary
> palimpsest. that work is clever and like the tabula rasa, clean and
> pristine.
> Howz dat Joe?
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