From: Christina Z. Anderson (zphoto@montana.net)
Date: 07/09/02-08:18:04 AM Z
In my continued search on mordancage info, I ordered an old copy of
Glafkides that is in English. I got it thru abebooks.com. In there they
had a formula for "dye mordanting" which in the French version of Glafkides
is called mordancage. Funny, I had been translating the French pages of
this exact text when I realized it seemed very familiar, and then I realized
I had the text in English :) on my bookshelf.
I checked back on the list archives and Nze Christian had written about
a similar formula in Jan 07 1998, saying that Sudre used it, and the
discussion ensued that this was the real mordancage--dye mordanting as we
call it--not the mordancage that is more similar to bleach etch. I found
this process both in Glafkides and in Clerc.
Questions: Nze Christian (I call you Christian, correct?) are you
positive this is the formula Sudre used? Or were you thinking it might be?
Where did your formula come from? And does anyone know a source for these
kinds of basic dyes that he mentions? It seems to me that the same bleach
etching is going on with the emulsion, and that the dye will cling to the
emulsion as toner or developer does when doing the mordancage a la Bailey
method (you're famous, Jon).
Last question: I have searched for any and all names of people working
with mordancage and was wondering if any were on the list: M.C Brehant,
Denis Brihat, M N Leroy, P L Martin, anyone from Helios, Don Upp, Craig
Stevens, Craig's ex-wife, Martin Becka, Henk Thijs, Chris Pinchbeck, are
some of the names that came up. I have, off list, emailed 4 or 5 to try and
communicate but they did not email back--maybe they considered me a
mordancage groupie. I just really would like to get the process info all in
one place, better than I have done already. There are also two articles I
don't have access to (altho I have access to the Marriage formula): Alan
McFaden's article quoted by Peter Marshall and the British Journal of
Photography, April 21 1944 quoted by Judy Seigel.
Christian, you translated in your post ammonium sulfocyannate--it is
actually in English thiocyanate, in Glafkides, anyway. Glafkides formula is
similar to yours but not in amounts exactly. His is:
Sodium citrate (neutral) 56 g
Copper sulfate 12 g
Potassium thiocyanate 10g
Acetic acid 20 ml
water to make 1liter
Yours was:
water 800 ml
copper sulfate 20g
potassium or sodium citrate 60-100g
acetic acid 30 ml
ammonium sulfocyannate 10g
water to 1 liter
(I take the liberty of quoting Nze Christian's post here from the archives,
Jan 07, 1998)
"like says jonathan this process was often used by j-c sudre (died last
year)
and by the fact well known by him.the mordancage is a sort of toning, in
fact it' a real toning .
the first step is like a toning
put a print in the following solution:
water 800
copper sulfate 20g
potassium or sodium citrate 60 to 100 g
acetic acid 30 cmc
ammonium sulfocyannate 10g
water to make 1 l
look at the processing and when the picutre don't change any more wash it
water till there is no more color in the white border area that's the
mordancage
after that you must do the dying of the print
with a dye solution as this one
water 800ml
acetic acetic 2 to 10 ml(if white color add more acid)
dye 0.05g to 2 g
the dye you can use
methyl violet
cocceine orange
green sulfo 2 b
green naphtol
amarante for pink
violet acid 5 b"
Nze christian
(post the next day, from Nze Christian)
"...no it's chemical dye for coloration of
with dry pigment it will not work(you need basic dye)
i will explain you the process and you will understand what sort of pigment
you can use
and how you can do your mordancage.
when a picture of silver is convert to a picture of silver iodure(with the
formula you create silver iodure and copper iodure)and this salt fix basic
(not acid)dye(auramine,chrysoidine, safranine)
after you wash and the dye in the gelatin goes out only where the gelatin
is not mordancer
and something else you can do your mordancage by toning your print with
urane or copper
the print must be just a little brown .But if you want bright color it's
better to use the formula i give ." Nze christian
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