From: Judy Seigel (jseigel@panix.com)
Date: 08/17/03-12:35:12 AM Z
On Sat, 16 Aug 2003, Sandy King wrote:
> the order of traditional carbon and color was such so that the yellow
> image would always be the one on the bottom. This is because yellow
> pigments are less transparent than magenta and cyan, and if left on
> the top add an unpleasant kind of yellow glow to the image.
I have a book on Color Separation by I think his name is Southworth which
surfaces at odd times when I don't want it, has never yet appeared when I
do. My RECOLLECTION is that cyan was first in commercial printing. Phil
Zimmerman in "Options for Color Separation" says first transfer is
"usually" cyan, which was how we did dye transfer when we were being
"correct."
However both offset and dye transfer layer very differently from *pigment*
prints and I daresay the matrix in which the pigment is suspended is a
factor also -- that a carbon print (in gelatin) for instance would build
differently from a gum... I myself tend to begin with magenta in the
normal course of gum printing, especially with faces, because I prefer the
red as "set point" (and for whatever reason that works with both "white"
and "black" faces). And that's whether I'm working in fake color sep from
one monochrome neg or "real" color sep in tricolor..
As for "cadmium yellow," most people I know (certainly the ones I've
taught) rarely use "cadmium yellow," and I think if you check it's rarely
cadmium these days anyway. Cadmium paint, as I understand it, is even
worse than dichromate in the water run off. But even before I knew about
that, I preferred the more transparent yellow of, in those days, Rowney
"Permanent yellow," which is, along with the others in that yellow family
(which if some kind person fails to fill in the color name I'll supply
when I get upstairs to the book, as it escapes me now), listed as
transparent and is in fact quite transparent.
Beyond problems with re-register (which I do by eye on the light table), I
don't like a yellow first coat because it gives very little information
against the white... you can see it much better against either red or
blue, or so I find. This may matter more with a process like gum where
there's so much wiggle room, indeed wiggle *mandate,* ie., you expect to
adjust en route... Processes such as Ultrastable are, I would imagine,
much more predetermined, in which case color order probably is part of the
protocol as well.
Judy
> The Ultrastable color carbon system was based on half-tone negatives
> and used black as the last color. It was of course based on
> registration and done in the order of YMCK.
>
>
> Since your system will be based on registration the correct method
> would be single transfer in the order YMC, or YMCK if you decide a
> black is necessary.
>
> Sandy
>
>
>
> >Ok, the master speaketh!
> >
> >What about the black? where does it come in?
> >
> >Thanks Sandy
> >
> >--Dick
> >
> >At 06:36 PM 8/15/2003 -0400, you wrote:
> >
> >>The correct printing order for carbon printing has almost always
> >>been YMC for single transfer method and CMY for double transfer.
> >>
> >>Sandy
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>When printing color gum or carbon what is the proper order of the colors?
> >>>
> >>>Is it as noted: CMYK?
> >>>
> >>>Or is it some other order and what is the rational?
> >>>
> >>>--Dick Sullivan
> >>>
> >>>Who is severely red green color blind.
>
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