From: Gordon J. Holtslander (holtsg@duke.usask.ca)
Date: 09/14/03-05:15:04 PM Z
Hi:
How about incorporating duplicated/ enlarged/altered negatives?
You could copy some of your negatives, enlarging them, duplicating them
altering them.
This would allow you to reuse and emphasize certain portions of your
montage by repeating them in different ways.
cut them apart, alter contrast, alter size, mask out parts etc etc.
could also do some cliche verre - maybe throw in some images xeroxed to
transparency.
Gord
On Sun, 14 Sep 2003, Steve Bell wrote:
> Hey Bert,
>
> I'm glad you're as excited about this as i am. it does seem like it will be a
> lot of fun. very tactile, which is how i like things.
>
> anyway, the stained glass window idea is interesting. i haven't really done
> much very specific previsualization, and i think that's a great way to go
> about it. i also think the overexposed strips of film are an interesting idea.
> i'm not sure if that's the look i'm going for, but i would certainly be
> interested to see your results if you end up trying it out.
>
> regarding seeing seams, etc, on the new larger negative, i don't care. i would
> like them to be present. i want it to be apparent that it is a montage, and i
> think that regarding the concept, the clear cut lines that might exist in the
> final image will be beneficial to the exposure of the political and social
> lines that govern the idea of gender.
>
> regarding taking a picture of collaged prints, i think i will definitely give
> that a try. but when it comes down to it, i really want to experiment with
> cutting up some negs. negatives have always been babied by me and everyone i
> know, and i really want to rough em up a little.
>
> also, this project isn't due until the end of the semester, so i've got some
> time.
>
> keep me posted on your progress and i will do the same!
>
> Steve
>
> Quoting curzon@tegenlicht.com:
>
> > Hi Steve,
> > A very nice iedea you have there. I must try it sometimes also, will be
> > fun.
> >
> > Here are some thoughts I had about it.
> > I think it will be difficult (but not impossible) to sew/glue/stapple/...
> > the negs without seeing the seams on the new negative. But is that a
> > problem? You could even turn it into a part of the work (of art).
> >
> > I was thinking about the way they make those stained glass windows in
> > churches. First they make a large drawing (lifesize) and then start
> > breaking
> > pieces of glass to the right size, putting it together like a puzzle. When
> > the've collected all the pieces they "glue" them toghether with lead.
> >
> > You could do the same. You'll use the negs as if it are the glass parts. To
> > play it safe: first print all the negs and cut and puzzle withe the prints.
> > Tape these prints together (use 3M Scotch tape).
> > Take a picture of it for reference. Print this picture to the size your
> > montages should be when finished. Then start cutting the negs to the right
> > size and put it on the picture.
> > Then glue the negs together.
> >
> > In a glass window you can see the "sewing" clearly. You could do the same.
> > Take some film (120 rollfilm) and overexpose it largely, then develop it to
> > get a totaly black film. Use this film to cut the "sews" out of it. Glue
> > these strips to the negs (I don't know how: also Scotch tape?). Then make a
> > contact print to see what the image looks like.
> >
> > If this is too much work or to difficult you could also stick to the
> > prints.
> > Make large prints of all the negs you want to use. Cut these negs to the
> > right size and glue them on a wall. When finished take another picture of
> > this montage with an 8x10" camera and you have a large montage neg. This is
> > a lot easier to do but the other way seems like more fun (to me).
> >
> > Wow, writing this down makes me even more enthousiastic about it. I'm
> > really
> > going to do this myself! I'll attend my first class in Bromoil next weekend
> > and this will be first project for Bromoil printing (after a certain
> > learnig
> > period) for me.
> >
> > Thanks for starting me off.
> >
> > Bert from Holland
> > www.tegenlicht.com (my site is under construction, sorry)
> >
> >
> > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> > Van: Steve Bell [mailto:sbell1@artic.edu]
> > Verzonden: zondag 14 september 2003 1:31
> > Aan: alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca
> > Onderwerp: Re: Negative Montages and Gender Politics, may be considered
> > OT
> >
> >
> > that's an interesting idea. putting the images together as print collages
> > and
> > then taking a picture of them. very interesting. i will definitely
> > experiment
> > with that technique. but i do like very much the idea of sewing negs
> > together,
> > and making a new neg like that.
> >
> > you said there are a million other ways to put them together? any ideas
> > would
> > be great. i would like to stay away from digital at this point. i don't
> > want
> > to spark any digidebates right now. but i'm definitely looking for an
> > analog
> > answer. and of course, there is always good old testing and experimenting,
> > which i certainly will do. but i would like to see what other people have
> > to
> > say.
> >
> > i was also thinking of using sewing needles, and holding some parts
> > together
> > as if i were preparing to sew that area. i was thinking some kind of glue,
> > but
> > i'm not sure how archival that is. i don't want to ruin my negatives if i
> > really like the print i make.
> >
> > thanks for the idea though, i will definitely try the print collage to 8x10
> > film idea.
> >
> > cheers,
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > Quoting Nick Makris <nick@mcn.org>:
> >
> > > Steve, If your goal is to produce a print/mural that looks like a
> > collage,
> > > I
> > > would definitely stick with glossy prints, and cut and paste, and then
> > > rephotograph on 8X10 or whatever works. Beyond that there are a million
> > > ways to put them together digital and analog. Have you considered lith
> > > film? probably not very good for masking parts of color negs. Best, n
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Steve Bell" <sbell1@artic.edu>
> > > To: "alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca"
> > > <alt-photo-process-l@skyway.usask.ca>
> > > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 3:39 PM
> > > Subject: Negative Montages and Gender Politics, may be considered OT
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hey Everyone,
> > > >
> > > > firstly i'd like to start off by apologizing for my inactivity on the
> > > list
> > > > over the past few months. i feel like this is a great community, and
> > i've
> > > been
> > > > neglecting it somewhat. i'm in school in chicago now, and i am
> > presently
> > > in a
> > > > color photo class, so my time for alt processes has been minimal.
> > > >
> > > > so here's my question:
> > > >
> > > > i'm presently working on a photo project that is based on gender
> > > politics.
> > > > i.e.- the idea that gender does not exist, or that it doesn't exist in
> > > such
> > > > black and white terms as 'boy' and 'girl' or 'man' and 'woman'. that
> > > there
> > > are
> > > > varying degrees of the characteristics that make up these definitions.
> > so
> > > what
> > > > i plan to do with this is shoot people in the studio and out of the
> > > studio,
> > > > shoot people basically, and then cut up the negatives (most likely 120,
> > > but
> > > > very possibly i will use 4x5). so the idea is to cut up the negatives,
> > > and
> > > > take different parts of peoples' bodies that give visual cues to
> > gender,
> > > and
> > > > make negative montages or collages. i'm going to try to put these
> > pieces
> > > of
> > > > negatives together to fit the size of an 8x10 piece of sheet film, and
> > > then
> > > > make mural size color prints.
> > > >
> > > > now what i planned to do was to sew the negatives together, which i
> > will
> > > do
> > > > partially, as that is definitely a gender cue in and of itself, but i
> > > don't
> > > > want that to be my only technique for affixing the negatives to each
> > > other.
> > > > does anybody have any experience with this kind of thing? i remember
> > > reading
> > > > in the James book about a photographer who, towards the end of his
> > > career,
> > > > took the tons of negatives that he had over the years and did a similar
> > > thing,
> > > > making 8x10 contact prints of negative collages. my copy of that book
> > is
> > > back
> > > > in baltimore, so if anyone knows who that artist is, that would be a
> > > helpful
> > > > resource.
> > > >
> > > > any ideas?
> > > >
> > > > thanks in advance,
> > > >
> > > > Steve
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------
Gordon J. Holtslander Dept. of Biology
holtsg@duke.usask.ca 112 Science Place
http://duke.usask.ca/~holtsg University of Saskatchewan
Tel (306) 966-4433 Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
Fax (306) 966-4461 Canada S7N 5E2
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