From: Steve Bell (sbell1@artic.edu)
Date: 09/16/03-08:41:48 PM Z
Hey,
Great idea about the cliche` verre. i didn't think of that at all! but that is
a great idea. we'll see where that takes me. i don't know how interested i am
in repeated imagery, but that can be effective.
thanks for the ideas,
Steve
Quoting "Gordon J. Holtslander" <holtsg@duke.usask.ca>:
>
> Hi:
>
> How about incorporating duplicated/ enlarged/altered negatives?
>
> You could copy some of your negatives, enlarging them, duplicating them
> altering them.
>
> This would allow you to reuse and emphasize certain portions of your
> montage by repeating them in different ways.
>
> cut them apart, alter contrast, alter size, mask out parts etc etc.
>
> could also do some cliche verre - maybe throw in some images xeroxed to
> transparency.
>
>
> Gord
>
> On Sun, 14 Sep 2003, Steve Bell wrote:
>
> > Hey Bert,
> >
> > I'm glad you're as excited about this as i am. it does seem like it will be
> a
> > lot of fun. very tactile, which is how i like things.
> >
> > anyway, the stained glass window idea is interesting. i haven't really
> done
> > much very specific previsualization, and i think that's a great way to go
> > about it. i also think the overexposed strips of film are an interesting
> idea.
> > i'm not sure if that's the look i'm going for, but i would certainly be
> > interested to see your results if you end up trying it out.
> >
> > regarding seeing seams, etc, on the new larger negative, i don't care. i
> would
> > like them to be present. i want it to be apparent that it is a montage, and
> i
> > think that regarding the concept, the clear cut lines that might exist in
> the
> > final image will be beneficial to the exposure of the political and
> social
> > lines that govern the idea of gender.
> >
> > regarding taking a picture of collaged prints, i think i will definitely
> give
> > that a try. but when it comes down to it, i really want to experiment
> with
> > cutting up some negs. negatives have always been babied by me and everyone
> i
> > know, and i really want to rough em up a little.
> >
> > also, this project isn't due until the end of the semester, so i've got
> some
> > time.
> >
> > keep me posted on your progress and i will do the same!
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > Quoting curzon@tegenlicht.com:
> >
> > > Hi Steve,
> > > A very nice iedea you have there. I must try it sometimes also, will be
> > > fun.
> > >
> > > Here are some thoughts I had about it.
> > > I think it will be difficult (but not impossible) to
> sew/glue/stapple/...
> > > the negs without seeing the seams on the new negative. But is that a
> > > problem? You could even turn it into a part of the work (of art).
> > >
> > > I was thinking about the way they make those stained glass windows in
> > > churches. First they make a large drawing (lifesize) and then start
> > > breaking
> > > pieces of glass to the right size, putting it together like a puzzle.
> When
> > > the've collected all the pieces they "glue" them toghether with lead.
> > >
> > > You could do the same. You'll use the negs as if it are the glass parts.
> To
> > > play it safe: first print all the negs and cut and puzzle withe the
> prints.
> > > Tape these prints together (use 3M Scotch tape).
> > > Take a picture of it for reference. Print this picture to the size your
> > > montages should be when finished. Then start cutting the negs to the
> right
> > > size and put it on the picture.
> > > Then glue the negs together.
> > >
> > > In a glass window you can see the "sewing" clearly. You could do the
> same.
> > > Take some film (120 rollfilm) and overexpose it largely, then develop it
> to
> > > get a totaly black film. Use this film to cut the "sews" out of it.
> Glue
> > > these strips to the negs (I don't know how: also Scotch tape?). Then make
> a
> > > contact print to see what the image looks like.
> > >
> > > If this is too much work or to difficult you could also stick to the
> > > prints.
> > > Make large prints of all the negs you want to use. Cut these negs to
> the
> > > right size and glue them on a wall. When finished take another picture
> of
> > > this montage with an 8x10" camera and you have a large montage neg. This
> is
> > > a lot easier to do but the other way seems like more fun (to me).
> > >
> > > Wow, writing this down makes me even more enthousiastic about it. I'm
> > > really
> > > going to do this myself! I'll attend my first class in Bromoil next
> weekend
> > > and this will be first project for Bromoil printing (after a certain
> > > learnig
> > > period) for me.
> > >
> > > Thanks for starting me off.
> > >
> > > Bert from Holland
> > > www.tegenlicht.com (my site is under construction, sorry)
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> > > Van: Steve Bell [mailto:sbell1@artic.edu]
> > > Verzonden: zondag 14 september 2003 1:31
> > > Aan: alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca
> > > Onderwerp: Re: Negative Montages and Gender Politics, may be considered
> > > OT
> > >
> > >
> > > that's an interesting idea. putting the images together as print
> collages
> > > and
> > > then taking a picture of them. very interesting. i will definitely
> > > experiment
> > > with that technique. but i do like very much the idea of sewing negs
> > > together,
> > > and making a new neg like that.
> > >
> > > you said there are a million other ways to put them together? any ideas
> > > would
> > > be great. i would like to stay away from digital at this point. i don't
> > > want
> > > to spark any digidebates right now. but i'm definitely looking for an
> > > analog
> > > answer. and of course, there is always good old testing and
> experimenting,
> > > which i certainly will do. but i would like to see what other people
> have
> > > to
> > > say.
> > >
> > > i was also thinking of using sewing needles, and holding some parts
> > > together
> > > as if i were preparing to sew that area. i was thinking some kind of
> glue,
> > > but
> > > i'm not sure how archival that is. i don't want to ruin my negatives if
> i
> > > really like the print i make.
> > >
> > > thanks for the idea though, i will definitely try the print collage to
> 8x10
> > > film idea.
> > >
> > > cheers,
> > >
> > > Steve
> > >
> > > Quoting Nick Makris <nick@mcn.org>:
> > >
> > > > Steve, If your goal is to produce a print/mural that looks like a
> > > collage,
> > > > I
> > > > would definitely stick with glossy prints, and cut and paste, and
> then
> > > > rephotograph on 8X10 or whatever works. Beyond that there are a
> million
> > > > ways to put them together digital and analog. Have you considered
> lith
> > > > film? probably not very good for masking parts of color negs. Best,
> n
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Steve Bell" <sbell1@artic.edu>
> > > > To: "alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca"
> > > > <alt-photo-process-l@skyway.usask.ca>
> > > > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 3:39 PM
> > > > Subject: Negative Montages and Gender Politics, may be considered OT
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hey Everyone,
> > > > >
> > > > > firstly i'd like to start off by apologizing for my inactivity on
> the
> > > > list
> > > > > over the past few months. i feel like this is a great community,
> and
> > > i've
> > > > been
> > > > > neglecting it somewhat. i'm in school in chicago now, and i am
> > > presently
> > > > in a
> > > > > color photo class, so my time for alt processes has been minimal.
> > > > >
> > > > > so here's my question:
> > > > >
> > > > > i'm presently working on a photo project that is based on gender
> > > > politics.
> > > > > i.e.- the idea that gender does not exist, or that it doesn't exist
> in
> > > > such
> > > > > black and white terms as 'boy' and 'girl' or 'man' and 'woman'.
> that
> > > > there
> > > > are
> > > > > varying degrees of the characteristics that make up these
> definitions.
> > > so
> > > > what
> > > > > i plan to do with this is shoot people in the studio and out of the
> > > > studio,
> > > > > shoot people basically, and then cut up the negatives (most likely
> 120,
> > > > but
> > > > > very possibly i will use 4x5). so the idea is to cut up the
> negatives,
> > > > and
> > > > > take different parts of peoples' bodies that give visual cues to
> > > gender,
> > > > and
> > > > > make negative montages or collages. i'm going to try to put these
> > > pieces
> > > > of
> > > > > negatives together to fit the size of an 8x10 piece of sheet film,
> and
> > > > then
> > > > > make mural size color prints.
> > > > >
> > > > > now what i planned to do was to sew the negatives together, which i
> > > will
> > > > do
> > > > > partially, as that is definitely a gender cue in and of itself, but
> i
> > > > don't
> > > > > want that to be my only technique for affixing the negatives to
> each
> > > > other.
> > > > > does anybody have any experience with this kind of thing? i
> remember
> > > > reading
> > > > > in the James book about a photographer who, towards the end of his
> > > > career,
> > > > > took the tons of negatives that he had over the years and did a
> similar
> > > > thing,
> > > > > making 8x10 contact prints of negative collages. my copy of that
> book
> > > is
> > > > back
> > > > > in baltimore, so if anyone knows who that artist is, that would be
> a
> > > > helpful
> > > > > resource.
> > > > >
> > > > > any ideas?
> > > > >
> > > > > thanks in advance,
> > > > >
> > > > > Steve
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Gordon J. Holtslander Dept. of Biology
> holtsg@duke.usask.ca 112 Science Place
> http://duke.usask.ca/~holtsg University of Saskatchewan
> Tel (306) 966-4433 Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
> Fax (306) 966-4461 Canada S7N 5E2
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
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