Re: Trick for increasing speed of photo papers?

You should really try it for yourself.
You never know what you will discover.

There certainly are ways emulsions can be speeded
up... Fog, other troubles aside, the point is yes, I
think it can be done. (But for pinhole pixs, I would
start with a faster material or process)

Never the less, several new techniques have even opened
the possibility of a 2+ stop gain w/o fog.

Richard, I respect your wisdom and command of photographic
Facts and Trivia VERY highly...

However, your constant reference to Ryuji as the
the one to turn to in terms of doubt, makes me suspect my
own trust in you!

A rough check turned up quite a few examples of your
partiality to Ryuji:

"the sort of thing Ryuji Suzuki has warned about..."
 
"Ryuji Suzuki has a small article on..."

"I suspect Ryuji will have further comments and perhaps a
better analysis of ..."

I think Ryuji Suzuki has...

As Ryuji points out...

I think Ryuji is probably...

Ryuji Suzuki's comments are...

My Gosh Richard, I want to hear YOUR knowledge,
not what you think someone else knows.

You wrote,
"A couple of things need pointing out.
First paper emulsions differ from film emulsions."

Yes and no.

They are much more similar than they are different.
Perhaps this is like man and the apes, but they are
actually very very similar... they even used to be much
more similar than they are today, some formulae being
essentially the same with minor, (yet important resulting)
differences.

Today they have evolved into <somewhat> dissimilar items,
yet for the most part they are much more similar than they
are different, IMHO.

"Perhaps Ryuji knows of some, but at as far as I know the
techniques are about the same as they have been for
decades."

Richard, there are new technologies evolving that
apparently you have forgotten.

"Again, film and paper emulsions are different and
are made differently. For one thing the amount of ripening
is different"

Well this term is still found in use but I believe this is
changing. When you use the term "Ripening" what you really
are interested in is grain size.

New emulsion preparation methods frequently may not really
include a traditional "ripening" phase....

While this statement is based somewhat on semantics, I
think it best not to confuse the issue... all we really
are talking about here is crystal size.

Also, it is important to point out that strictly speaking,
ripening refers to Ostwald Ripening, the process after
precipitation, of grain growth by the dissolution of
smaller crystals (and presumably parts of larger ones as
well), and their re-precipitation on larger crystals, over
and over again, until the desired average grain size is
obtained.

The second ripening, involving sulphur type compounds, is
usually referred to as "digestion" but unfortunately, the
use of these terms has occasionally been inconsistent. For
my own emulsion work and related writing, I use the terms
"Physical Ripening" and "Chemical Digestion"

"Since Ryuji has been studying and making emulsions I
would pay attention to his opinion about this."

Thanks for the plug, Richard!
For the record, I began studying and making emulsions in
the late eighties....

and for what it's worth, I would pay attention to my own
opinion about this... and the others who suggested
something other than just giving up.

"Some substances may increase sensitivity but will
also increase fog a lot which is intolerable in prints."

True... but I would change the "will" to "might", or
"probably will".

Also, I would like to point out that your value judgement
of fog being "intolerable" in prints is rather dogmatic
and based on rigid traditional photographic concepts and
may not really apply to EVERY case... when it comes to
"ART".

I have seen some beautiful examples of "art" where "white"
was non-existent.

Photography (Art?) can be different things...
Sometimes its the subject matter.
Sometimes its the message.
Sometimes its the technique.
Sometimes its the material.

While I do make my positive emulsions to be "fog free" in
the traditionally dogmatic photographic sense, I accept
the fact that there are other combinations when it comes
to art.

It's good to encourage people to think outside of their
boxcamera.

Sorry for this long exhale!

I think sleep deprivation does affect emulsional
stability....

Ray

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Received on Thu Nov 18 12:06:30 2004