Re: "speckling" v "staining " (was New Orleans/glut)

Oh, and the link:

http://www.mahn.net/SIE510e.pdf

Paragraph 1 seems to indicate that LP-Geladur and Black Magic
Hardener are the same thing..

On Sep 4, 2005, at 9:56 AM, Christina Z. Anderson wrote:

> Clay,
> I think on this list it was reported that it is 2.5% glut. I think
> Ryuji said another brand is called Maxi-cide that is also 2.5%. I
> asked Maco for an MSDS sheet and they returned an email saying
> check the website, but darned if I can find the MSDS on the website
> for the hardener that is in English...
> http://www.mahn.net/Frameset.htm
> That is the URL for the safety sheets but either I am doing
> something wrong or they won't load. I think it is under Geladur
> there...
> Chris
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clay" <wcharmon@wt.net>
> To: <alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca>
> Sent: Saturday, September 03, 2005 9:41 AM
> Subject: Re: "speckling" v "staining " (was New Orleans/glut)
>
>
>
>> Chris and everyone,
>>
>> Some people have mentioned using the Black Magic hardener. Any
>> idea what the strength of that stuff is? What sort of volume are
>> you using in 1000ml of gelatin? I am debating giving that a try
>> (with good ventilation!)
>>
>> Clay
>> On Sep 3, 2005, at 10:15 AM, Christina Z. Anderson wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Judy,
>>>
>>> Yes, Rives BFK.
>>>
>>> I agree that the term "speckling" can refer to different
>>> things. One is, for instance, an all over grainy speckle that I
>>> attribute to such things as overexposure or overbrushing that
>>> ends up leaving little grainy bits of pigment all over the
>>> paper, including the highlights. It looks like a robin's egg,
>>> with tone underneath.
>>>
>>> I also have had that speckling with white highlights that you
>>> talk about, that I figured was Rives paper fiber at the very top
>>> picking up a stain. Oh, for a microscope...
>>>
>>> Staining, though, can be in the form of a flat tone, when the
>>> color sinks into the highlights and never releases (no grain), or
>>> a combination of that flat tone and speckles in the highlights
>>> attributed to both overexposure and unsuitable size, etc., or
>>> whatever reason of choice causes staining (too acid gum, blah
>>> blah blah). So yes, speckle and stain can be different things,
>>> can have different causes, but can occur concurrently.
>>>
>>> My point is that a lot of beginning gummists get this speckle/
>>> grainy effect, and my guess is, that with a different paper and
>>> different size, this would not happen.
>>>
>>> Maybe Mark could scan and post the speckle??
>>>
>>> My guess is, that Rives has little paper fibers that get brushed
>>> up and extend past the size and don't get enough size, OR
>>> glyoxal crystallizes gelatin in such a way, that catches and
>>> doesn't release pigment. Why the latter guess is that my
>>> glyoxal coated FAEW hot press also speckled. In fact, when I go
>>> back through my prints I did over the last 2 years (probably
>>> about 500?) I can tell the glyoxal from the glut by feel and look.
>>>
>>> I had Mark feel both the glyoxal Rives and the Fabriano AEW and
>>> he could feel the crystally texture of the glyoxal. I also feel
>>> that texture with formaldehyde, when I used to size with it.
>>> There is NONE of that feel with glut either on hot or cold
>>> pressed papers. It feels smooth and it acts smooth. BTW, my
>>> formaldehyde used to speckle, too.
>>>
>>> Plus, I can go back months later on a glut sized print and soak
>>> and remove layers of gum with a scotch brite pad (thank you Jack
>>> Brubaker). I cannot do that with an unsized FAEW or a Rives
>>> sized or not.
>>>
>>> Maybe I'm just lucky with glut, because I started out with
>>> Ryuji's advice to use the 6ml of 2.5% per liter gum and it worked.
>>>
>>> The only way we can form a justifiable opinion on glut is if
>>> anyone using it reports to the list and we develop a body of
>>> knowledge. Don Bryant is doing so shortly. I hope others trying
>>> it will POST.
>>>
>>> If the topic of glut's toxicity comes up, remember that both
>>> formaldehyde and glyoxal are very toxic, too. I personally
>>> would NOT hang over a tray of glyoxal as a hardening afterbath
>>> any more than I would hang over a tray of glut.
>>>
>>> BTW, I don't want to cast aspersions on Don's sizing method with
>>> Rives, as his paper is perfect looking, flat, non-yellowed, and
>>> I think he did rinse the glyoxal off after hardening. But, Don,
>>> did you separately tray harden or put the glyoxal into the hot
>>> gelatin?
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Judy said: You seem to be using the terms "speckling" and
>>>> "stain" here as meaning the > same thing. But as I use the
>>>> terms they're distinctly different... the "stain" being a fine
>>>> (although grainy) tone over the paper, the "speckling" being
>>>> larger, possibly irregular but usually shinier *specks* of
>>>> color, more widely spaced, that is there can be perfectly white
>>>> paper between them.
>>>> I've only seen what I call speckling in cases of faulty size,
>>>> although *staining* can be from many causes, such as dispersal
>>>> agent or other in the paint itself, or paper that tends to
>>>> stain... (as some will always if not sized, eg. one particular
>>>> Arches which I'd have to look up to name).
>>>> And frankly my experience of the experience is so different
>>>> from what you describe, I really do hope that's the explanation.
>>>> The "Rives" here meaning Rives BFK, I assume, not one of the
>>>> other Rives papers???
>>>> Judy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
Received on Sun Sep 4 16:10:25 2005