Re: "speckling" v "staining " (was New Orleans/glut) SEE SCANS

So here I was, I couldn't see Mark's scan of Chris's speckles because
the library wasn't open today, but I was sizing paper and I thought
a-ha! If I've got a piece of BFK around, I can make the speckles myself
and see with my own eyes what they look like. So I rummaged around in my
scrap drawer and found a piece of BFK, sized it with gelatin and
glyoxal, put it out in the wind to dry, and tonight I cut it into four
pieces and printed four prints on it. I used an especially heavily
pigmented mix in blue-black to give it a head start toward staining, if
that's what it wanted to do.

But... nada. No grit, no stain, no speckles. Just nice prints, all, with
clear paper whites and clear highlights. Not a very long tonal range,
but that's what I get for printing such a heavy mix.

The surprise for me was that I didn't expect such a heavily textured
paper to print detail well, but it does very surprisingly well, even to
printing the tiny letters and numbers at the top of the Stouffer 21-step
perfectly sharply and clearly.

With the last bit of coating mix, I printed a scrap of unsized BFK with
the rest, and that stained so bad it was laughable. I've not printed a
lot on BFK, but in my limited experience with it I was rarely able to
print on unsized BFK without stain, so this is nothing new. It just goes
to show how variable experiences are about gum, that Judy mentioned the
other day that BFK is supposed to be the only paper that can be reliably
printed without size, but in my experience back in the day when I was
printing entirely unsized, this is the one paper I was NOT able to
reliability print unsized.

I venture to guess that this stain I got is the robins' egg effect Chris
was talking about: the stain is continuous but it varies in tone with
the hills and valleys of the paper. There are about five different tones
of stain, but it's all stain, and it's continuous though variable in
tone, so I wouldn't call it speckles. Speckling requires discontinuity,
to my mind. But that may be different from any of the other speckles
we've talked about; I'm losing track.
Katharine

Kate M wrote:
>
> Could it depend on the type of gelatine one uses?? I myself am forced to
> use food grade as that's what's readily available. I don't use glut
> although I have a wee light bulb that's just gone off in my brain that
> tells me where I might be able to get it......
>
> Cheers
> Kate
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Katharine Thayer [mailto:kthayer@pacifier.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, 7 September 2005 9:28 p.m.
> To: alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca
> Subject: Re: "speckling" v "staining " (was New Orleans/glut) SEE SCANS
>
> Well darn, I forgot the rather important fact that I can't look at
> images onscreen and have any sense what I'm looking at. (The problem is
> a terrible fuschia cast over everything, which I'm told means that
> either the monitor or the video card is dying). So I'll have to go to
> the library later to see what this looks like; it's hopeless from here.
>
> But Mark is right of course, you can't use this comparison of apples and
> oranges to draw any conclusions about the relative merits of glyoxal vs
> glutaraldehyde, because as Judy said earlier, there are just too many
> variables hanging out there.
>
> As to the grit, I'm completely baffled why you guys would get gritty
> papers and Judy and I (and others who reported in an earlier thread)
> don't. One of those mysteries of gum I guess. But obviously there's
> something else unaccounted for that must account for this difference.
> Later,
> Katharine
>
>
>
> Ender100@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Hi Chris,
> >
> > regarding the infamous speckles.  As mentioned, there were two papers
> > coated used:
> >
> > Fabriano Artistico Extra White with Gelatin sizing hardened with
> > Gluteraldehyde
> >
> > Rives BFK with Gelatin sizing hardened with Glyoxal
> >
> > The Rives BFK is a more textured paper than the Farbrianoâ*”I do not
> > know if it was cold press or what, but had obvious more texture.
> >
> > I wondered if the paper had been scuffed when sized, causing the peaks
>
> > of the texture to not clear, however when I looked at it with a loupe,
>
> > it appeared that the "speckles" are located more in the valleys of the
>
> > texture.  Then I wondered if it was just loose pigment gathering in
> > the valleys, but that isn't true because when they were developed in
> > the water, I tried to remove the "speckles" with a spray and abrasion
> > and it wouldn't go away.  The area that of the RIVES that I scanned is
>
> > the area under the most dense steps of the 31 film step tablet (not
> > digital step tablet) that received relatively no exposure... there was
>
> > no indication of "tone" at all at those steps or on the Artistico at
> > the same steps.  So whatever occured, happened without exposure and
> > was fairly even all over the paper regardless of how much exposure it
> > received.
> >
> > Here are the links to the two spectacular speckled scans for you to
> > speculate upon:
> >
> > Frabriano Artistico Glut & Rives BFK Glyoxal at 3x
> > Rives BFK Glyoxal at 24x
> >
> > I do also recall rather vividly when feeling the papers before coating
>
> > them that the Fabriano had a smooth feel while the Rives had a gritty
> > feel.  Very much like when you spray something very lightly with a
> > varnish and the tiny droplet dry and leave a rough feel to the
> > surface...or a very fine grit sandpaper.
> >
> > These are just my observations and I draw no conclusions  I would like
>
> > to have seen the same to papers with the hardners reversed.  However,
> > I would probably not waste my time and just go with the Fabriano sized
>
> > in the manner it was, because it printed beautifully.  Not as sharp as
>
> > PT/PD, but not badâ*”hehehehe
> >
> > Best Wishes,
> > Mark Nelson
> > Purchase the eBook & PDN System for Your Own Custom Digital Negative
> > Workflow @ Precision Digital Negatives
> > PDN's Own 31-Step Tablet Now Availableâ*”produced by Stouffer
> > Industries
> > Coming Soonâ*”Curve Calculator II will let you choose your toes!
> > www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com
> >
> > In a message dated 9/6/05 9:41:26 PM, zphoto@montana.net writes:
> >
> > I sent some images to Darryl (thanks, Darryl) but have to
> > await Mark sending
> > scans of the two Stouffers to Darryl to see speckling,
> > unless I can find a
> > speckled image amongst my stuff.
>
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Received on Wed Sep 7 20:37:10 2005