RE: palladium bleeding, loooonnnnnggg results

DEAR CHRIS,
        I feel that most of the much more experienced Gurus can give you more info
on this but I think that something happens to coating when it is dried
faster then re-humidified. For one thing I think it gets dried way down
inside the paper which may not happen when you air dry, even in your very
dry atmosphere. Secondly, I think there may be some "setting" in the paper
happening. Again, I defer to those with more experience but I think that
the effort expended by walking into your home and grabbing your hair dryer
is a small price to pay to find out if this is, indeed, a solution to the
problem. When I was taking my research courses at RIT we were told that
finding a dead end and eliminating it as an option was nearly as valuable as
finding the "right" path to the solution of a problem. Everyone believes
that, for the last half century, we have had too many options and variables
and nothing could be more true of alt photo processes. Try it. It if
works, great! If not, then you know you must pursue other options.
                CHEERS!
                        BOB

 Please check my website: http://www.bobkiss.com/

"Live as if you are going to die tomorrow. Learn as if you are going to
live forever". Mahatma Gandhi

-----Original Message-----
From: Christina Z. Anderson [mailto:zphoto@montana.net]
Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 12:05 PM
To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
Subject: Re: palladium bleeding, loooonnnnnggg results

Bob and Eric and Camden,
I am avoiding getting in the car for 5 more minutes to drive 900 miles :)

Bob, simple is NEVER ignored or chided, by me anyway.

WOW, you use a hair dryer to dry? I will list that as another thing to try.
But as Camden said in his post, it is dry enough in MT that paper here will
dry within 20 minutes.

The cockling, as Don calls it, that Camden talks about does happen here with
Platine. It is because the very edges have a bit more solution on them, and
the center dries fairly quickly here.

But Bob, your hair dryer method on the edges might be just the ticket to
solve that issue.

The ferric I used was different than Camden's which I had ordered from B and
S about...when, Camden, March? I reordered from B and S another bottle.
But I just had to quickly order a liter of the stuff because I was running
out, so I got the new ferric from Photographer's Formulary. Maybe with the
hot weather my ferric....went belly up or somethin'.

Camden, as far as the paper, I had ordered 75 sheets of the stuff, in 3
packets. Therefore there could have been 3 different batches although they
were all ordered at the same time.

My rH now (Camden, I got mine at Brookstone, a digi/temp indoor outdoor
readout for maybe $30?) is around 30-40%. But where Camden prints is in the
school building which is climate controlled, and I print at home in my
dimroom. Montana is verrry dry, even when it rains. I will be interested
to see how Mark Nelson (and Camden, because he will be Mark's assistant at
the Formulary for 2 wk) find the humidity at the Formulary during his two
week workshop there doing diginegs and pt/pd with Dick Arentz. But he's
been there before.

Eric, as far as if I observed different speeds/etc. with different amounts
of ferric, etc., I am bringing the tonal palettes, which will show me all
that, on the road with me to observe; didn't have time to do so yesterday
because of a wedding, but I'll have a 15 hour car trip to look so will
report back. I do know that the bleedoff increased with increase of ferric
and it became greyer and ugggglllly.

I think this answers all the questions--OH, Camden's paper was from the
first 2 batches/packets of Platine, which I also used; I don't think he used
from the 3rd packet because I brought that home at the end of the semester
to finish my New Orleans project.

I do suspect that through all this, humidity, new paper, and a dab of
something to allow the solution to sink in better, along with fresh ferric,
will do the trick.

Bye--on the road again, with spotty email, but maybe I'll be able to post
speed results within the next couple days if my computer doesn't crash
again!
Chris

----- Original Message -----
From: "BOB KISS" <bobkiss@caribsurf.com>
To: <alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca>
Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 1:55 PM
Subject: RE: palladium bleeding

> DEAR CHRIS,
> Though I may be ignored or chided for suggesting something so simple, I
> was
> struck by the fact that you do NOT use a hair dryer on low setting to dry
> your coated paper. I do the following and have NEVER had any bleeding.
> Yes, I know I live where the humidity in my darkroom hovers between 50 and
> 55% year round but try this anyhow.
> 1) Coat as you usually do.
> 2) I wait at least a few minutes for the solution to soak into the paper.
> It shouldn't look "wet" or shiny any more...just feel very damp.
> 3) I use a hair dryer at low setting dry the paper using circular sweeping
> motions on both the coated and back side of the paper.
> 4) I hang the paper in the darkroom for around 10 minutes for everything
> to
> stabilize and even out.
> 5) I then re-moisten it holding it high above a steaming pot of water. I
> do
> this just until the paper goes slightly limp and loses its strong dry
> feeling.
> 6) Again, I leave the paper just a minute to stabilize and even out.
> 7) Voila: Good D-max, clean highlights, decent contrast, and no bleeding.
> Soooooooooooooooo, if this is wrong or if I have been flagellating a
> moribund equine, forgive me, but this problem may have a
> simpler solution than has henceforth been suggested.
> CHEERS!
> BOB
>
> Please check my website: http://www.bobkiss.com/
>
> "Live as if you are going to die tomorrow. Learn as if you are going to
> live forever". Mahatma Gandhi
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christina Z. Anderson [mailto:zphoto@montana.net]
> Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 5:23 PM
> To: Alt, List
> Subject: palladium bleeding, loooonnnnnggg results
>
> OK,
> I cant believe I gave up a nice relaxing breakfast with Mark Nelson to
> stay
> at home, pack, attend a wedding, and maniacially expose tonal palettes all
> the while, but here it is before I leave town....
>
> All am citrate--I decided to use the developer that has produced more
> bleed
> for me.
>
> Follows all Platine:
>
> 10 drops sensitizer--lotsa bleed
> 10 drops sensitizer + 2 drops extra ferric--lotsa bleed
> 10 drops sensitizer + 6 drops extra ferric--lotsa lotsa bleed and bled
> continually in the clear and the water wash afterward
> 10 drops sensitizer + 1 drop Tween--minimal bleed
> 10 drops sensitizer + 2 drops methylated alcohol--minimal bleed, more than
> Tween tho
> 10 drops sensitizer coated onto wet paper--no bleed, lots of printout
> before
> development and a weak print that did not clear well of ferric in EDTA
> Tetra
> plus sodium sulfite (of course, because I coated wet paper which one
> wouldn't do--I wanted to really test the extreme of humidity)
>
> Follows, Cranes Platinotype/Cover and Arches Platine am citrate developer:
>
> 10 drops sensitizer with new ferric oxalate on cranes cover: no bleeding
> 10 drops sensitizer new ferric oxalate on cranes cover with humidified--no
> bleeding
> 10 drops sensitizer new ferric oxalate on cranes cover with 2 drops
> methylated alcohol--no bleeding
> 10 drops sensitizer new ferric oxalate Arches Platine 2 drops methylated
> alcohol--lotsa lotsa bleeding (?? don't know why this is the case except I
> am using leftover chunks of Platine and therefore they may be from
> different
> batches of paper for all I know...)
> 10 drops sensitizer new ferric oxalate Arches Platine very little bleeding
> 10 drops sensitizer new ferric oxalate lots tween--no bleeding
>
> Well, can one possibly draw conclusions here with all these "one little
> tests"???
>
> I conclude that this batch of Platine bleeds more than cover. It could
> only
> be because cover is more absorbent. My guess is that either by humidity
> or
> tween or methylated alcohol and using the right paper, the solution sinks
> into the surface better and doesn't sit on top and bleed when it hits the
> developer.
>
> Decreasing the ratio of metal salts to ferric did not work, but I have not
> tried increasing the metal salts to see if that has an effect.
>
> My droppers all are 20 drops to the ml.
>
> My ferric could have been getting old. I tested it in some potassium
> ferricyanide and it immediately went brown and then slowly had a wave of
> green in it. However, I did the same with my new ferric and it was close
> to
> the same effect. But you will notice that overall I got less bleeding with
> the new ferric.
>
> What I will need to do when I return home is increase humidity in my room,
> use methylated alcohol or Tween (maybe the alcohol first choice only
> because
> Tween was a bit...soapy?...and I actually got a smoother tonal scale and
> more printing in of the highlights on Platine with methylated alcohol).
> But
> I don't think either is needed for Cover--only increase in humidity in the
> room and perhaps switching to sodium citrate. I do think the developer
> comes
> into play as well as that my batch of Platine may just be sized
> differently
> than the last.
>
> I think why troubleshooting is so hard with this particular issue is it
> looks like it is a combination of factors at work. But you all can look
> at
> the data and see what major point I am missing.
>
> Now to look at all the 101 tones in each tonal palette and see how they
> relate to the different methods, above--paper, Tween, methylated alcohol,
> etc.
> Regards,
> Chris
> CZAphotographycom
>
>
>
>
Received on 08/14/06-06:50:54 AM Z