Re: palladium bleedoff

Thanks you guys! Now I have a bunch of things to try. I do have sodium
citrate, and will try changing the developer, adding water or alcohol (Bob
are you talking Everclear or methylated spirits or just plain rubbing
alcohol?) to the coating. I think you all are right on the money that it
is sitting on top of the paper and not absorbing and/or the developer issue,
I bet. Will humidify the paper more with my ionic humidifier, too. As far
as amount, I use 1 drop per 2 sq inches. Will report back,
Chris
PS A couple weeks ago I did the dumbest thing: I was using my calculator to
do 2 prints at once, and plugged in 2 drops to 1 inch instead of 1 drop to 2
inches for the sq. in. area. I was coating the paper and couldn't figure
out why it was puddling so much. EXPENSIVE mistake.
----- Original Message -----
From: "BOB KISS" <bobkiss@caribsurf.com>
To: <alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 8:46 AM
Subject: RE: palladium bleedoff

DEAR CHRIS,
I have also never observed palladium runoff. I use exclusively Sodium
Citrate developer at 100° F. I also use a few drops of pure alcohol in
every batch to be coated. I think it helps the chems absorb into the paper
better.
CHEERS!
BOB

 Please check my website: http://www.bobkiss.com/

"Live as if you are going to die tomorrow. Learn as if you are going to
live forever". Mahtama Gandhi

-----Original Message-----
From: Marek Matusz [mailto:marekmatusz@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 11:35 AM
To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
Subject: RE: palladium bleedoff

Chris,
I posted a note yesterday, but it never showed up on the list.
The problem you are running into is that some of the sensitizer is sitting
on top of the paper and is not absorbed. It is then washed away in the
developer / wash solutions. Try diluting your solution with water to allow
for a longer contact with paper to soak the developer deeper into the paper.
However you have mentioned that the humidity is higher now and that would be
counter this idea. Tween 20 helps to soak the solution into the paper and it
should help as well.

The second idea is that your developer is off. The sensitizer dissolves in
the developer before palladium gets reduced. This dissloved palladium is
reduced in a developer solution creating a bleed. Some sensitizer have more
tendency to do that, but it might be a property of the developer as well.
The developer should reduce your palladium before it has a chance to
dissolve any, so I would not rule out the mixed citrate as culprit here.
I use potassium oxalate developer and never observed bleeding in palladium
printing.
Mix a new batch of your old developer formula and let us know.
Marek, Houston

>From: Eric Neilsen <e.neilsen@worldnet.att.net>
>Reply-To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
>To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
>Subject: RE: palladium bleedoff
>Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2006 20:07:07 -0500
>
>Chris, Several issues to look at...
>
>Soak in time, amount of coating solution, RH of paper and in coating room.
>Soak the solution into the paper until longer soaking gives grainy look of
>paper, reduce solution volume until blacks get weak or TOO hard to coat
>evenly, humidify paper to help blend solution volume and soak in time,
>
>
>Also process upside down ( coated side down ) and rotate print in print
>washer. Also be careful not to over soft paper with excessive EDTA/clearing
>bath.
>
>Eric, still on the road, Neilsen
>
>Eric Neilsen Photography
>4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
>Dallas, TX 75226
>214-827-8301
>http://ericneilsenphotography.com
>
>Skype : ejprinter
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Don Bryant [mailto:dstevenbryant@mindspring.com]
> > Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 5:24 PM
> > To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
> > Subject: RE: palladium bleedoff
> >
> > There was a long thread about this topic back in May on the
> > APUG Alternative
> > Process Forum.
> >
> > http://www.apug.org/forums/showthread.php?postid=310901
> >
> > Some folks mentioned that they have had the problem occur with
> > several
> > different types of paper including Platine, Cot320, Cranes
> > Cover 90 (a.k.a.
> > Birdcageotype in Placerville, CA) and possibly others. In the
> > end, nothing
> > definitive was resolved as the exact cause of this problem.
> >
> > I've also experienced this problem with iron-silver processes
> > such as VDB
> > and kallitype using different papers at various RHs.
> >
> > My best guess is that the amount of sensitizer used can cause
> > this,
> > specifically using more than is really needed. I've also
> > noticed that this
> > problem will crop up when printing negatives that have a lot of
> > dark tones
> > near the edge of the image but the bleeding can be observed in
> > any part of
> > the image where darker tones occur.
> >
> > I inquired about this problem quite a while ago when printing
> > VDB. So far as
> > I know no one has solved the issue.
> >
> > I do recall that Mike Ware discusses a similar issue of
> > bleeding using the
> > traditional cyanotype formula in his cyanotype book. If memory
> > serves me
> > well he referred to this as peptization (peptisation) but may
> > not be related
> > to palladium printing.
> >
> > Don Bryant
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Christina Z. Anderson [mailto:zphoto@montana.net]
> > Sent: Monday, July 10, 2006 10:36 AM
> > To: Alt, List
> > Subject: palladium bleedoff
> >
> > Hi All,
> > Back from assisting the Bruce Barnbaum workshop at the
> > Photographer's
> > Formulary. What a hoot. Great sense of humor, that guy, and
> > all of a
> > sudden my black and white prints don't look so stellar to me
> > anymore :)
> >
> > Back to alt this week: I've never seen this issue until this
> > month,
> > although I have read about it on the list and kept notes as to
> > its causes
> > (don't use Crane's Cover bright white, too rapid drying, too
> > much metal
> > salts...). So this month I've been making prints my exact
> > normal way, on
> > the same paper (Arches Platine), everything. The bleeding is
> > only coming
> > from the dark border edges of the print and is not affecting
> > the image
> > density at all.
> >
> > The only thing that may be different in my practice is the
> > humidity is
> > higher here in the summer--all of 42% (and once I saw it at
> > like 50%!)
> > instead of 20-35%! Except that should be a plus for this
> > problem, not a
> > minus. I do let the print dry for 20-30 minutes, air dry.
> >
> > And I did a perhaps no-no: I was running out of am citrate
> > developer so I
> > had a jar of sod citrate on hand and mixed up that and mixed it
> > into the am
> > citrate. Could that be the problem, the two citrates mixed?
> > Otherwise am
> > citrate does great for me.
> >
> > What is even the difference between an ammonium and a sodium
> > salt of a
> > substance?
> >
> > Does anyone mix Tween in with their sensitizer? I know Michael
> > Kravit mixes
> >
> > PVA 10% goo, 2 drops into 5ml...
> >
> > The last possible idea is that my former palladium solution--
> > purchased--had
> > less metal salts in it than my current palladium solution which
> > I mixed
> > myself...but that shouldn't be the case, correct? I mean,
> > isn't all
> > palladium mixed at the same strength (5g to 55ml)? I sure am
> > getting nice
> > blacks, though!
> >
> > Too many questions I am sure...but it's ohhhh so fun when you
> > pt/pd guys
> > start talking.
> > Chris
> >
> >
>
>
Received on 07/11/06-10:05:26 AM Z