Re: palladium drydown and developer (albumen & collodion)

Don,

I don't think you have made any point, just insulted another list
member. If you can't behave better I'll be asking Gordon to reassess
your membership :-) I've been on this list for many years too, but only
post when I have something to say.

Terry wasn't comparing anything with his process, but arguing about the
ease of the 'traditional' and 'new' cyantoypes. I'd choose the
traditional method when running workshops for children myself, as I've
certainly found it easier, particularly if you are working on a wide
range of negatives, to get usable results.

I went to the first meeting of members from this list that Terry
organised, and to the first APIS too. I've also worked with Terry on
various other things over the years. But I still delete quite a few of
his posts, as well as those from several others on the list, whose
messages here often annoy.

The new methods are bound to become widely known in time as various
people attend the workshops or pay for the instructions. I don't see
much point in Terry's approach in charging as I think it is more trouble
than it is worth for the small amount he will make from it, but I don't
have any problem with him doing so. There have been several people
conducting a very silly campaign on here about this that annoys me
rather more than anything Terry has done in recent months.

Regards

Peter Marshall
petermarshall@cix.co.uk
_________________________________________________________________
My London Diary http://mylondondiary.co.uk/
London's Industrial Heritage: http://petermarshallphotos.co.uk/
The Buildings of London etc: http://londonphotographs.co.uk/
and elsewhere......

Don Bryant wrote:
> Peter,
>
> I've been on this list now for many years, and I can tell you it's more than
> an issue of merely pressing the delete key. His posts have a culmative
> effect on the list participation.
>
> You may wish to make obsequious posts for Terry, if so that's find. But
> please let us all have some intellectual honesty about Terry's love to play
> a cat and mouse routine with others that do bother to post.
>
> For example his recent exchange with Loris was simply an attempt to
> deprecate Loris' enthusiasm for the New Cyanotype process. I inferred this
> as a way to make the new T-REX cyanotype process to appear superior, when in
> reality all of the examples that Terry has placed on his web page look
> inferior (all very flat low contrast images.) Given that some people may
> prefer a low contrast image (including Terry) the process may be fine,
> however Terry has neatly avoided the fact the one could never get any other
> result. That is what Loris was reacting to (IMO) in a round about way as
> well as the Chinese fire drill that he pressed Loris to perform with his
> (Terry's) silly nonsensical responses.
>
> That's what pisses people off, Terry's silly disregard for others opinions
> and his failure to be responsive and live up to his so called reputation.
>
> I could go on with more examples but I've made my point.
>
> Don Bryant
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Marshall [mailto:petermarshall@cix.co.uk]
> Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 1:29 PM
> To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
> Subject: Re: palladium drydown and developer (albumen & collodion)
>
> I can't understand people who apparently use a computer that doesn't
> have a delete key and an e-mail program that doesn't have twit filtering
> facilities :-)
>
> I also find it hard to see that Terry has broken the 'rules' so that he
> might be banned.
>
> Easy to see his contribution to alt photo though, through organising
> various events, spreading the gospel and the discovery of new methods
> which I think will eventually become very important in alt printing.
>
> Regards
>
> Peter Marshall
> petermarshall@cix.co.uk
> _________________________________________________________________
> My London Diary http://mylondondiary.co.uk/
> London's Industrial Heritage: http://petermarshallphotos.co.uk/
> The Buildings of London etc: http://londonphotographs.co.uk/
> and elsewhere......
>
>
>
> Don Bryant wrote:
>
>> Terry,
>>
>>
>>
>> Why do you manage to suggest that everyone else is wrong and you are
>>
> right?
>
>> My question is meant rhetorically, you need not answer.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm not going to waste any time and get to the point with my message
>>
> today.
>
>>
>>
>> It's time for you to go, that is, to be banned from this list.
>>
>>
>>
>> I vote we kick you and your drivel off the "island."
>>
>>
>>
>> I therefore request that Gordon place you in exile once again.
>>
>>
>>
>> I know others on this list, who feel the same as I, are not likely to make
>>
> a
>
>> public disclosure of their disgust with your behavior. I would encourage
>> them to send a private e-mail to Gordon requesting your dismissal from the
>> list ASAP.
>>
>>
>>
>> BTW, as far as the B&S list goes, you've pulled the same crap over there
>>
> for
>
>> years; frankly I don't think they are interested in your participation
>>
> there
>
>> either.
>>
>>
>>
>> Don Bryant
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _____
>>
>> From: TERRYAKING@aol.com [mailto:TERRYAKING@aol.com]
>> Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 9:48 AM
>> To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
>> Subject: Re: palladium drydown and developer (albumen & collodion)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Witho
>>
>> I have been teaching alternative processes very successfully for a very
>>
> long
>
>> time.and I have given a hell of a lot.. There are generations of students
>> who will attest to this.
>>
>> If you had read things more carefully.you would have seen that your
>> perception was wrong. You are not aware of the facts and you draw the
>>
> wrong
>
>> conclusions; this leads to your being unjustifiably offensive. But I
>> suspect that was your intention.
>>
>> I would like to see things improve. I suggest that you prefer the status
>> quo.
>>
>> When I joined this list it was good but later, whenever I have set
>>
> anything
>
>> up, such as APIS, somebody on this list attacked it. This is true not
>>
> just
>
>> for me but is true for many others who would leave as they could not see
>>
> the
>
>> point in putting up with this kind of nonsense. They had better things to
>> do.
>>
>> Somebody, who is a subscriber to this list has told me that the way I have
>> neen treated in the last week or so was 'absolutely disgusting'. In fact
>> it was like being in a school playground. .
>>
>> I am a good teacher and have developed and suggested methods that are now
>> common in discussions on this list but now, when I suggest a way of doing
>> things, instead of accepting that it is a legitimate approach open for
>> discussion, it is pooh-poohed as it is not the accepted way of doing
>> things. You need some intiative here, not long discussions of
>>
> insignificant
>
>> and useless details.
>>
>> When I suggest other ways of making sizes for platinum prints, someone
>>
> tells
>
>> me that he cannot see the point as gelatine is good for the methods he
>>
> uses
>
>> and implies that as he has not come across yellowing in albumenised paper
>>
> it
>
>> can be of no significance..Now this is significant as the person concerned
>> is a guru on this list. I mention it as the most recent example. of many.
>>
>> When I suggest that one can make develop gum prints in seconds rather than
>> hours, it is either ignored or I am told that my puddle pusher methods
>>
> will
>
>> produce 'rotten' prints. Not very helpful for those trying to learn.
>>
>> Recently when I made a simple comment about gum printing I got an
>>
> emotional
>
>> and irrational spiel. This is not the first time this has happened.
>>
>> Once, earlier, when I pointed out that a leading light had got something
>> wrong I was told that I would not know what had hit me and that there
>>
> would
>
>> be blood on the carpet. I was even told that I could stay on the list if I
>> did not mention gum printing. I left. and stayed away.
>>
>> That is why I am defensive. That is why I suggest that people should
>>
> attend
>
>> conferences such as APIS in Santa Fe or in England as that is where you
>>
> can
>
>> get a reasonable standard of discussion.That is why I, and many others do
>> not 'give' as much as they might to this list. That is why I save things
>>
> for
>
>> conferences. The 'benefit' is a rational exchange of ideas. Sometimes, but
>> only sometimes does one get that here
>>
>> Sometimes one thinks that may be a chance that things could improve but
>>
> one
>
>> is quickly dissillusioned by comments such as yours...
>>
>> There is a silent majority who would prefer less domination by a few and
>> fewer of these silly attacks. They complain, but do nothing.
>>
>> This list should be a place where people of like mind can discuss things
>>
> in
>
>> an adult and informed manner. I am afraid that this is just not true .
>>
> This
>
>> list cannot be taken seriously until it is properly administered.
>>
>> I suggest that, if you have a serious interest in alternative photography,
>> you should attend conferences, go to exhibitions and museums , and read
>>
> the
>
>> books and manuals. Incidentally, the author of one of the best manuals for
>> those starting in alternative photography, who happens to be a friend of
>> mine, joined this list but left quickly when all he got was insults. I
>>
> hope
>
>> that you take the point.
>>
>> This list has given others a bad name but if anyone is seeking a
>>
> reasonable
>
>> level of discussion go to
>>
>> the B&S web site
>>
>> or
>>
>> artaltphoto@yahoogroups.co.uk
>>
>> Incidentally , the answer to the yellowing problem is that one uses an
>> organic rather than a mineral acid for clearing. It is in the manuals.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Terry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 22/07/2006 10:21:47 GMT Daylight Time, info@witho.nl
>> writes:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello Terry,
>>
>>
>>
>> Why do you invite everybody to a conference or a workshop in stead of
>> sharing what you know in this forum. Like this albumen question you again
>> play your hide and seek game. You mention a problem (yellowing) which you
>> have overcome but in stead of sharing how you start an argument (in a
>> lengthy way). Just tell on list what is your solution to a problem in
>>
> stead
>
>> of referring to literature, experience and testing. All people acquire
>> information the same way as you. So help the inexperienced in stead of
>> telling them over and over that you have found a better solution. If you
>> want to help people with their attitude towards learning do it of list. If
>> you want to contribute with wisdom do it straight forward without
>>
> hesitation
>
>> and without the expectancy of benefit. If you feel that you have achieved
>>
> it
>
>> to be a master or a teacher behave like one.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Witho
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Received on 07/23/06-09:44:40 AM Z