Re: How old are we? ***VERY*** OLD !!

Katherine,

I tend to agree with both of you on the whole social pressure thing.
Judy's right, to some degree: social pressure can be a good thing (i.e.
keeping us all in line). However, it can also cause problems if we allow
it to.

I'm a "he", by the way. :)

Camden Hardy

camden@hardyphotography.net
http://www.hardyphotography.net

On Fri, July 28, 2006 10:18 am, Katharine Thayer wrote:
>
> On Jul 27, 2006, at 11:40 PM, Judy Seigel wrote:
>
>>
>> And good for them, I say. Very possibly all to the good... it made
>> EVERYBODY human, not just letters on a screen. Some behavior SHOULD
>> be addressed. (I add here, which will probably convince you that
>> I'm a nut case... be my guest... that I once scolded a man who had
>> NOT cleaned up after his dog on our block, scolding him out loud
>> all the way to the subway, which was several blocks-- we have a
>> pooper scooper law here which, in the neighborhood, where the
>> neighbors do watch -- keeps the area inhabitable, because there are
>> almost more dogs than people, and most folks do comply... and then
>> as this fellow was about to duck with relief into the subway, I
>> asked, '"If you knew that every time you DIDN'T clean up you were
>> going to be scolded in public like that, would you then clean up?"
>> He rolled his eyes, and said fervently, "Oh, yes."
>>
>> In other words generally speaking social pressure is effective.
>> Except where it feeds the pathology, or a certain sado-masochism...
>> As a shrink I know put it, "Even the man being flogged in the
>> village square, is THE CENTER OF ATTENTION !." Still, it makes the
>> folks who've been offended feel less helpless. They've at least
>> made a gesture of disapproval. And improved their blood pressure by
>> ventilating.
>
>
> As Judy says, it depends which direction the social pressure is
> directed, whether it's likely to be effective. There are those who
> always reserve to themselves the pleasure of attacking others, but
> the notion of the benefits of social pressure would carry more
> credibility with me if the benefits of social pressure were equally
> valued when brought to bear in other directions. We like it,
> apparently, when people gang up on our enemies, but in order to be
> credible, the advocacy for "social pressure" must be equally valued
> when that social pressure (defined here as unprofessional and
> disrespectful comments ) is brought against us and our friends.
> Which is exactly why this "social pressure" idea is a bad idea; it
> just turns the list into a free-for-all, and most of us simply
> wouldn't stick around for it, in fact we've lost a lot of good people
> exactly because of this kind of stuff. It's true that Camden lost
> credibility with me from the get-go when she came on here and
> lectured us all about how she didn't see any problem with people
> posting from nabble without joining the list, but in this case,
> while perhaps presumptuous, she does happen to be right: there's
> nothing to be gained by this kind of behavior.
>
>
> The last time Judy told us about how good it is for the list for
> people (her side, not the other side) to just indulge themselves in
> telling everyone what they think (about U.S. politics it was, that
> time) and how much better it makes "everyone" feel to do that, we
> lost at least two good people. We lost Dave Rose because he just
> utterly, totally, lost it and had to be removed from the list. I
> wish he had been able to keep his cool; I miss him. And I'm afraid
> we also lost someone else. I've been listening and listening for his
> voice, and I don't think I've heard it since then. He spoke up and
> said that the political comments were making him feel unwelcome here,
> as someone who, like Dave, has a different political view than those
> who were indulging themselves by expressing their political opinions.
> He was shouted down, very rudely as I recall. He was a longtime
> member of the list, and a valuable one. No, I'm sorry, I just can't
> agree with this idea that the list heals itself by the exertion of
> "social pressure;" or by any airing of personal pique and self-
> indulgence. That's certainly never been my experience, in fact quite
> the opposite. My 2cents,
> Katharine.
>
>
Received on 07/28/06-10:32:00 AM Z