Re: How old are we? ***VERY*** OLD !!

My apologies; I'm so sorry I mistook your gender. My chagrin is
palpable. And by the way, welcome to the list; I personally think
you'll be a great addition. I apologize for the remark about
nabble; I daresay you've figured out by now why allowing posting
from nabble wouldn't be a good idea; Gordon has his hands full
policing the rabble that actually subscribe here; he doesn't need
extra folks lobbing grenades from outside the borders. Welcome to
the group.
Katharine

On Jul 28, 2006, at 9:31 AM, Camden Hardy wrote:

> Katherine,
>
> I tend to agree with both of you on the whole social pressure thing.
> Judy's right, to some degree: social pressure can be a good thing
> (i.e.
> keeping us all in line). However, it can also cause problems if we
> allow
> it to.
>
> I'm a "he", by the way. :)
>
> Camden Hardy
>
> camden@hardyphotography.net
> http://www.hardyphotography.net
>
>
> On Fri, July 28, 2006 10:18 am, Katharine Thayer wrote:
>
>>
>> On Jul 27, 2006, at 11:40 PM, Judy Seigel wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> And good for them, I say. Very possibly all to the good... it made
>>> EVERYBODY human, not just letters on a screen. Some behavior SHOULD
>>> be addressed. (I add here, which will probably convince you that
>>> I'm a nut case... be my guest... that I once scolded a man who had
>>> NOT cleaned up after his dog on our block, scolding him out loud
>>> all the way to the subway, which was several blocks-- we have a
>>> pooper scooper law here which, in the neighborhood, where the
>>> neighbors do watch -- keeps the area inhabitable, because there are
>>> almost more dogs than people, and most folks do comply... and then
>>> as this fellow was about to duck with relief into the subway, I
>>> asked, '"If you knew that every time you DIDN'T clean up you were
>>> going to be scolded in public like that, would you then clean up?"
>>> He rolled his eyes, and said fervently, "Oh, yes."
>>>
>>> In other words generally speaking social pressure is effective.
>>> Except where it feeds the pathology, or a certain sado-masochism...
>>> As a shrink I know put it, "Even the man being flogged in the
>>> village square, is THE CENTER OF ATTENTION !." Still, it makes the
>>> folks who've been offended feel less helpless. They've at least
>>> made a gesture of disapproval. And improved their blood pressure by
>>> ventilating.
>>>
>>
>>
>> As Judy says, it depends which direction the social pressure is
>> directed, whether it's likely to be effective. There are those who
>> always reserve to themselves the pleasure of attacking others, but
>> the notion of the benefits of social pressure would carry more
>> credibility with me if the benefits of social pressure were equally
>> valued when brought to bear in other directions. We like it,
>> apparently, when people gang up on our enemies, but in order to be
>> credible, the advocacy for "social pressure" must be equally valued
>> when that social pressure (defined here as unprofessional and
>> disrespectful comments ) is brought against us and our friends.
>> Which is exactly why this "social pressure" idea is a bad idea; it
>> just turns the list into a free-for-all, and most of us simply
>> wouldn't stick around for it, in fact we've lost a lot of good people
>> exactly because of this kind of stuff. It's true that Camden lost
>> credibility with me from the get-go when she came on here and
>> lectured us all about how she didn't see any problem with people
>> posting from nabble without joining the list, but in this case,
>> while perhaps presumptuous, she does happen to be right: there's
>> nothing to be gained by this kind of behavior.
>>
>>
>> The last time Judy told us about how good it is for the list for
>> people (her side, not the other side) to just indulge themselves in
>> telling everyone what they think (about U.S. politics it was, that
>> time) and how much better it makes "everyone" feel to do that, we
>> lost at least two good people. We lost Dave Rose because he just
>> utterly, totally, lost it and had to be removed from the list. I
>> wish he had been able to keep his cool; I miss him. And I'm afraid
>> we also lost someone else. I've been listening and listening for his
>> voice, and I don't think I've heard it since then. He spoke up and
>> said that the political comments were making him feel unwelcome here,
>> as someone who, like Dave, has a different political view than those
>> who were indulging themselves by expressing their political opinions.
>> He was shouted down, very rudely as I recall. He was a longtime
>> member of the list, and a valuable one. No, I'm sorry, I just can't
>> agree with this idea that the list heals itself by the exertion of
>> "social pressure;" or by any airing of personal pique and self-
>> indulgence. That's certainly never been my experience, in fact quite
>> the opposite. My 2cents,
>> Katharine.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Received on 07/28/06-06:22:19 PM Z