U of S | Mailing List Archive | alt-photo-process-l | Re: Third party inks for negative printing

Re: Third party inks for negative printing

Hi Eric,

Yes I tried that. The problem is the huge UV density jump between the black ink and grey inks (and colored inks too). The grey inks are dilutions of the same ink and the blacks are different inks. I don't know if this is the same for the epson k3 inks. This difference is clearly visible when looking at the print especially with ebony but also with the mis photoblack. I think adding an extra tonercolor (a diluted yellow or green maybe) instead of black might help more. With an adjustable toner ink theoreticaly you can create your own digital multigrade system.
But you need a dedicated printer for these BW negatives then. Nice thing is that these negatives look a lot more like the old analog ones we all still have sweet memories of.

By the way this non black printing method gives great results with normal BW prints on glossy papers too. Learned this on the BlackandWhitedigital list some years ago. That's why I started using it for negatives too.


So for loger scale negatives I use spectral colored
On 26-okt-2006, at 17:15, Eric Neilsen wrote:

Kees, Have you tried limiting the black ink with QTR? It seems odd to me
that you can't use any. I have not used those inks, but I'd think that
rather than turn it off completely, one might be able to add a little.

As for smearing with matte black, I have been spraying those made with MK to
prevent that.


Eric Neilsen Photography
4101 Commerce Street
Suite 9
Dallas, TX 75226
Skype ejprinter

-----Original Message-----
From: Kees Brandenburg [mailto:ctb@zeelandnet.nl]
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 2:50 AM
To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
Subject: Third party inks for negative printing

Keith and Marek,

I find the density of eboni black too high for gum negatives. Also,
like most mat black inks there is allways some inksmearing on many
substrates. If I am right Marek uses a black only approach. This
could work for gum also but only with a bitmapped negative I think.
Where dots can be opaque.

My approach is different. I am using MIS (inksupply.com) UT black/
grey inks with a CIS. I am using QuadToneRip (quadtonerip.com) fot
outputting to my printer so I can specify what ink the rip uses. The
trick is not to use the black ink and only print with the next dark
grey for the darkests tones and the other greys for the rest. With
QTR one can specify where each ink takes over frome the previous one.

As the MIS UT inks are very warm toned on some substrates you get a
negative that is really warmblack and is very solid and scratch
restant. And a density that is at least enough for gum and cyanotype.
This works great on AGFA CopyJet and the Ultrafine film and will do
the same on Pictorico I think. It works just like Dan's approach with
his warmblack setting on the 2400 advanced black and white mode.

If you want to use the inks whithout the rip you probably get better
results with the mis photoblack ink instead of eboni.


PS  Found another excellent printing substrate this week that seems
to work very good with my grey ink approach. I will test and report

On 26-okt-2006, at 0:03, Marek Matusz wrote:


I have been using Eboni black from MIS associates in my 2200 for
over a year now. It will work in all Epson printers using pigmented
inks, perhaps htey have a version for dye printers as well. The ink
is 2-3 dollars to refill the cartridge if you buy it in bulk. I
have been refilling the cartridge that I bought from them with no
issues at all.  I can print 50 or more 8x10 prints from a
cartridge, depending on how much ink density is desired. The Eboni
black has more then enough density to print palladium, you should
be fine with gum then, just a curve or a line to limit the ink
output. The ink prints fine on all the transparencies that I tried.
It is really not that expensive. On the other hand I just noticed
that the price of Epson cartriges for 2200 went from $10 to 16.

Marek Matusz

From: Ender100@aol.com
Reply-To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
Subject: Re: How many gum layers (Re: ferri sesquichlorati)
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 16:47:53 -0400 (EDT)

Hi Keith,

Certainly you could go with a CIS system and use cheaper 3rd party
inks.  A lot of people do that.  Just be sure you can get a film
substrate/Ink combination that are compatible... inks like some
substrates better than other.  There should be a means of testing
this...I think the ink manufacturers would probably be willing to
print a sample file on your choice of substrate so you would have a
sample to review.

Best Wishes,
Mark Nelson

Precision Digital Negatives - The System
PDNPrint Forum at Yahoo Groups

In a message dated 10/25/06 3:19:10 PM, Keith@GumPhoto.com writes:

I've been out of the inkjet circuit for years.  I have no need for
archival inks.  For that matter, I have no need for even GOOD ink.
Other than rendering a printer useless for anything else, is there
any reason I couldn't get one of those continuous-feed systems and
dump in India ink or Sumi ink or something else?  I'm serious.  I
just want to print cheap ink onto cheap paper for the purpose of
making cheap gum prints.  The negative doesn't have to last more
than a day or so.  In fact, I'd prefer if it didn't last!  Are
there any cheap maverick-consistent alternatives that you can think
of employing?

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