RE: Third party inks for negative printing
The Epson K3 MK and PK blacks are very dense for UV as well. I would also
point out that MIS Eboni black is sold as MK and PK as well. Perhaps the PK
would dry differently, though truthfully I have no idea.
It's been my experience that the MIS inks (colored and black) just don't dry
well on Pictorico OHP and I don't see the advantage of having to coax the
inks to perform well with that substrate. By coaxing I mean spraying or
drying with a hair dryer.
I do wish someone somewhere could make a survey of all of the available non
OEM inks to determine if there is a non Epson brand that could be used for
making inkjet negatives on Pictorico and other similar products.
As Judy Segal pointed out the inexpensive dye based inks which can be
purchased for printers like the 1160 or 1280 can and do work well for inkjet
negatives. Unfortunately those printers don't print as smoothly as the new
pigment ink printers but they do work fine for gum printing.
From: Kees Brandenburg [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org]
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: Third party inks for negative printing
Yes I tried that. The problem is the huge UV density jump between the
black ink and grey inks (and colored inks too). The grey inks are
dilutions of the same ink and the blacks are different inks. I don't
know if this is the same for the epson k3 inks. This difference is
clearly visible when looking at the print especially with ebony but
also with the mis photoblack. I think adding an extra tonercolor (a
diluted yellow or green maybe) instead of black might help more. With
an adjustable toner ink theoreticaly you can create your own digital
But you need a dedicated printer for these BW negatives then. Nice
thing is that these negatives look a lot more like the old analog
ones we all still have sweet memories of.
By the way this non black printing method gives great results with
normal BW prints on glossy papers too. Learned this on the
BlackandWhitedigital list some years ago. That's why I started using
it for negatives too.
So for loger scale negatives I use spectral colored
On 26-okt-2006, at 17:15, Eric Neilsen wrote:
> Kees, Have you tried limiting the black ink with QTR? It seems odd
> to me
> that you can't use any. I have not used those inks, but I'd think that
> rather than turn it off completely, one might be able to add a little.
> As for smearing with matte black, I have been spraying those made
> with MK to
> prevent that.
> Eric Neilsen Photography
> 4101 Commerce Street
> Suite 9
> Dallas, TX 75226
> Skype ejprinter
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kees Brandenburg [mailto:email@example.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 2:50 AM
>> To: firstname.lastname@example.org
>> Subject: Third party inks for negative printing
>> Keith and Marek,
>> I find the density of eboni black too high for gum negatives. Also,
>> like most mat black inks there is allways some inksmearing on many
>> substrates. If I am right Marek uses a black only approach. This
>> could work for gum also but only with a bitmapped negative I think.
>> Where dots can be opaque.
>> My approach is different. I am using MIS (inksupply.com) UT black/
>> grey inks with a CIS. I am using QuadToneRip (quadtonerip.com) fot
>> outputting to my printer so I can specify what ink the rip uses. The
>> trick is not to use the black ink and only print with the next dark
>> grey for the darkests tones and the other greys for the rest. With
>> QTR one can specify where each ink takes over frome the previous one.
>> As the MIS UT inks are very warm toned on some substrates you get a
>> negative that is really warmblack and is very solid and scratch
>> restant. And a density that is at least enough for gum and cyanotype.
>> This works great on AGFA CopyJet and the Ultrafine film and will do
>> the same on Pictorico I think. It works just like Dan's approach with
>> his warmblack setting on the 2400 advanced black and white mode.
>> If you want to use the inks whithout the rip you probably get better
>> results with the mis photoblack ink instead of eboni.
>> PS Found another excellent printing substrate this week that seems
>> to work very good with my grey ink approach. I will test and report
>> On 26-okt-2006, at 0:03, Marek Matusz wrote:
>>> I have been using Eboni black from MIS associates in my 2200 for
>>> over a year now. It will work in all Epson printers using pigmented
>>> inks, perhaps htey have a version for dye printers as well. The ink
>>> is 2-3 dollars to refill the cartridge if you buy it in bulk. I
>>> have been refilling the cartridge that I bought from them with no
>>> issues at all. I can print 50 or more 8x10 prints from a
>>> cartridge, depending on how much ink density is desired. The Eboni
>>> black has more then enough density to print palladium, you should
>>> be fine with gum then, just a curve or a line to limit the ink
>>> output. The ink prints fine on all the transparencies that I tried.
>>> It is really not that expensive. On the other hand I just noticed
>>> that the price of Epson cartriges for 2200 went from $10 to 16.
>>> Marek Matusz
>>> From: Ender100@aol.com
>>> Reply-To: email@example.com
>>> To: firstname.lastname@example.org
>>> Subject: Re: How many gum layers (Re: ferri sesquichlorati)
>>> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 16:47:53 -0400 (EDT)
>>> Hi Keith,
>>> Certainly you could go with a CIS system and use cheaper 3rd party
>>> inks. A lot of people do that. Just be sure you can get a film
>>> substrate/Ink combination that are compatible... inks like some
>>> substrates better than other. There should be a means of testing
>>> this...I think the ink manufacturers would probably be willing to
>>> print a sample file on your choice of substrate so you would have a
>>> sample to review.
>>> Best Wishes,
>>> Mark Nelson
>>> Precision Digital Negatives - The System
>>> PDNPrint Forum at Yahoo Groups
>>> In a message dated 10/25/06 3:19:10 PM, Keith@GumPhoto.com writes:
>>> I've been out of the inkjet circuit for years. I have no need for
>>> archival inks. For that matter, I have no need for even GOOD ink.
>>> Other than rendering a printer useless for anything else, is there
>>> any reason I couldn't get one of those continuous-feed systems and
>>> dump in India ink or Sumi ink or something else? I'm serious. I
>>> just want to print cheap ink onto cheap paper for the purpose of
>>> making cheap gum prints. The negative doesn't have to last more
>>> than a day or so. In fact, I'd prefer if it didn't last! Are
>>> there any cheap maverick-consistent alternatives that you can think
>>> of employing?
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