RE: Third party inks for negative printing

[EJN Photo <ejnphoto@sbcglobal.net>]

Don, Here is one answer for your survey : ) The Cone Peizography Ink set
works on the Photo Warehouse material; their ultra clear film. 

EJ & Family
10219 Lynford Dr
Dallas, TX 75238


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Don Bryant [mailto:dsbryant@bellsouth.net]
> Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 11:38 AM
> To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
> Subject: RE: Third party inks for negative printing
> 
> Kees,
> 
> The Epson K3 MK and PK blacks are very dense for UV as well. I
> would also
> point out that MIS Eboni black is sold as MK and PK as well.
> Perhaps the PK
> would dry differently, though truthfully I have no idea.
> 
> It's been my experience that the MIS inks (colored and black)
> just don't dry
> well on Pictorico OHP and I don't see the advantage of having
> to coax the
> inks to perform well with that substrate. By coaxing I mean
> spraying or
> drying with a hair dryer.
> 
> I do wish someone somewhere could make a survey of all of the
> available non
> OEM inks to determine if there is a non Epson brand that could
> be used for
> making inkjet negatives on Pictorico and other similar
> products.
> 
> As Judy Segal pointed out the inexpensive dye based inks which
> can be
> purchased for printers like the 1160 or 1280 can and do work
> well for inkjet
> negatives. Unfortunately those printers don't print as smoothly
> as the new
> pigment ink printers but they do work fine for gum printing.
> 
> Don Bryant
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kees Brandenburg [mailto:ctb@zeelandnet.nl]
> Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 11:55 AM
> To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
> Subject: Re: Third party inks for negative printing
> 
> Hi Eric,
> 
> Yes I tried that. The problem is the huge UV density jump
> between the
> black ink and grey inks (and colored inks too). The grey inks
> are
> dilutions of the same ink and the blacks are different inks. I
> don't
> know if this is the same for the epson k3 inks. This difference
> is
> clearly visible when looking at the print especially with ebony
> but
> also with the mis photoblack. I think adding an extra
> tonercolor (a
> diluted yellow or green maybe) instead of black might help
> more. With
> an adjustable toner ink theoreticaly you can create your own
> digital
> multigrade system.
> But you need a dedicated printer for these BW negatives then.
> Nice
> thing is that these negatives look a lot more like the old
> analog
> ones we all still have sweet memories of.
> 
> By the way this non black printing method gives great results
> with
> normal BW prints on glossy papers too. Learned this on the
> BlackandWhitedigital list some years ago. That's why I started
> using
> it for negatives too.
> 
> kees
> 
> 
> So for loger scale negatives I use spectral  colored
> On 26-okt-2006, at 17:15, Eric Neilsen wrote:
> 
> > Kees, Have you tried limiting the black ink with QTR? It
> seems odd
> > to me
> > that you can't use any. I have not used those inks, but I'd
> think that
> > rather than turn it off completely, one might be able to add
> a little.
> >
> > As for smearing with matte black, I have been spraying those
> made
> > with MK to
> > prevent that.
> >
> > Eric
> >
> >
> > Eric Neilsen Photography
> > 4101 Commerce Street
> > Suite 9
> > Dallas, TX 75226
> > http://e.neilsen.home.att.net
> > http://ericneilsenphotography.com
> > Skype ejprinter
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Kees Brandenburg [mailto:ctb@zeelandnet.nl]
> >> Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 2:50 AM
> >> To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
> >> Subject: Third party inks for negative printing
> >>
> >> Keith and Marek,
> >>
> >> I find the density of eboni black too high for gum
> negatives. Also,
> >> like most mat black inks there is allways some inksmearing
> on many
> >> substrates. If I am right Marek uses a black only approach.
> This
> >> could work for gum also but only with a bitmapped negative I
> think.
> >> Where dots can be opaque.
> >>
> >> My approach is different. I am using MIS (inksupply.com) UT
> black/
> >> grey inks with a CIS. I am using QuadToneRip
> (quadtonerip.com) fot
> >> outputting to my printer so I can specify what ink the rip
> uses. The
> >> trick is not to use the black ink and only print with the
> next dark
> >> grey for the darkests tones and the other greys for the
> rest. With
> >> QTR one can specify where each ink takes over frome the
> previous one.
> >>
> >> As the MIS UT inks are very warm toned on some substrates
> you get a
> >> negative that is really warmblack and is very solid and
> scratch
> >> restant. And a density that is at least enough for gum and
> cyanotype.
> >> This works great on AGFA CopyJet and the Ultrafine film and
> will do
> >> the same on Pictorico I think. It works just like Dan's
> approach with
> >> his warmblack setting on the 2400 advanced black and white
> mode.
> >>
> >> If you want to use the inks whithout the rip you probably
> get better
> >> results with the mis photoblack ink instead of eboni.
> >>
> >> kees
> >>
> >> PS  Found another excellent printing substrate this week
> that seems
> >> to work very good with my grey ink approach. I will test and
> report
> >> soon!
> >>
> >> On 26-okt-2006, at 0:03, Marek Matusz wrote:
> >>
> >>> Keith,
> >>>
> >>> I have been using Eboni black from MIS associates in my
> 2200 for
> >>> over a year now. It will work in all Epson printers using
> pigmented
> >>> inks, perhaps htey have a version for dye printers as well.
> The ink
> >>> is 2-3 dollars to refill the cartridge if you buy it in
> bulk. I
> >>> have been refilling the cartridge that I bought from them
> with no
> >>> issues at all.  I can print 50 or more 8x10 prints from a
> >>> cartridge, depending on how much ink density is desired.
> The Eboni
> >>> black has more then enough density to print palladium, you
> should
> >>> be fine with gum then, just a curve or a line to limit the
> ink
> >>> output. The ink prints fine on all the transparencies that
> I tried.
> >>> It is really not that expensive. On the other hand I just
> noticed
> >>> that the price of Epson cartriges for 2200 went from $10 to
> 16.
> >>>
> >>> Marek Matusz
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> From: Ender100@aol.com
> >>> Reply-To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
> >>> To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
> >>> Subject: Re: How many gum layers (Re: ferri sesquichlorati)
> >>> Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 16:47:53 -0400 (EDT)
> >>>
> >>> Hi Keith,
> >>>
> >>> Certainly you could go with a CIS system and use cheaper
> 3rd party
> >>> inks.  A lot of people do that.  Just be sure you can get a
> film
> >>> substrate/Ink combination that are compatible... inks like
> some
> >>> substrates better than other.  There should be a means of
> testing
> >>> this...I think the ink manufacturers would probably be
> willing to
> >>> print a sample file on your choice of substrate so you
> would have a
> >>> sample to review.
> >>>
> >>> Best Wishes,
> >>> Mark Nelson
> >>>
> >>> Precision Digital Negatives - The System
> >>> PDNPrint Forum at Yahoo Groups
> >>> www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> In a message dated 10/25/06 3:19:10 PM, Keith@GumPhoto.com
> writes:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I've been out of the inkjet circuit for years.  I have no
> need for
> >>> archival inks.  For that matter, I have no need for even
> GOOD ink.
> >>> Other than rendering a printer useless for anything else,
> is there
> >>> any reason I couldn't get one of those continuous-feed
> systems and
> >>> dump in India ink or Sumi ink or something else?  I'm
> serious.  I
> >>> just want to print cheap ink onto cheap paper for the
> purpose of
> >>> making cheap gum prints.  The negative doesn't have to last
> more
> >>> than a day or so.  In fact, I'd prefer if it didn't last!
> Are
> >>> there any cheap maverick-consistent alternatives that you
> can think
> >>> of employing?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
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>