RE: Ware/Malde-Ziatype-DOP palladium,was RE: "New" Paper for Pt/Pd (and other iron processes, too)

[EJN Photo <ejnphoto@sbcglobal.net>]

Camden, I have not done a reflective reading for them to be able to give you
color density reading. And as far as strict systems, I haven't work to the
exact standards that you might apply to them. If I use ammonium palladium is
that a traditional print? Or if I substitute sodium in the Ware/Malde
system, am I no longer making a Ware/Malde print? I don't think so. 

Clay, did you make your prints with the ammonium platinum? If so, where are
you getting it? I was able to pick some up from Englehard, but that was only
a single order and it is all gone now.

My AFO prints, whether you call them Ware/Malde or EJ_o_types, do show a bit
more reddish quality. I can however get close to that with traditional
solution and sodium citrate developer. I have not beat all those possible
paths.  


Eric Neilsen Photography
4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
Dallas, TX 75226
214-827-8301
http://ericneilsenphotography.com
 
Skype : ejprinter> -----Original Message-----
> From: Camden Hardy [mailto:camden@hardyphotography.net]
> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 4:29 PM
> To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
> Subject: RE: Ware/Malde-Ziatype-DOP palladium, was RE: "New"
> Paper for Pt/Pd (and other iron processes, too)
> 
> > Camden, The Ware/Malde system should not lead you to a
> specific color, nor
> > does the Ziatype or Traditional DOP. They are all capable of
> producing
> > prints of various colors.
> 
> I'm aware that both processes can be adjusted to create a warm
> or cool
> tone.  The articles I've read about each all had charts showing
> the
> factors that can shift from a cool to a warm tone.
> 
> I asked the question because the term "warm" is fairly vague.
> Sepia and
> thiourea are both "warm" toners, but thiourea is more toward
> the yellow
> end.  "Warm" could mean red, yellow, pink (just kidding), etc.
> I'm
> wondering whether one process is capable of producing warm
> colors that the
> other can't.
> 
> 
> Camden Hardy
> 
> camden[at]hardyphotography[dot]net
> http://www.hardyphotography.net
> 
> 
> 
> > I think that you'd be better thinking of the reasons that any
> pt/pd prints
> > changes color and one of the biggest contributors to that is
> humidity or
> > lack thereof. There are big gereralizations that can be made
> about PT, PD
> > and humidity. There are also several very good ways to
> develop these
> > images
> > that influence color.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Eric Neilsen Photography
> > 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
> > Dallas, TX 75226
> > 214-827-8301
> > http://ericneilsenphotography.com
> >
> > Skype : ejprinter> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Sandy King [mailto:sanking@clemson.edu]
> >> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 12:30 PM
> >> To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
> >> Subject: Re: Ware/Malde-Ziatype-DOP palladium, was RE: "New"
> >> Paper for Pt/Pd (and other iron processes, too)
> >>
> >> I have not done anything with ziatype other than
> >> print with straight FAO plus lithium palladium
> >> chloride.
> >>
> >> Sandy
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> At 8:21 AM -0700 11/30/06, Camden Hardy wrote:
> >> >Sandy,
> >> >
> >> >Have you tried adding sodium tungstate to the ziatype
> emulsion
> >> to get
> >> >warmer tones?
> >> >
> >> >If so, how does the color compare to that of the Ware/Malde
> >> POP process?
> >> >
> >> >Camden Hardy
> >> >
> >> >camden[at]hardyphotography[dot]net
> >> >http://www.hardyphotography.net
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >On Wed, November 29, 2006 10:37 pm, Sandy King wrote:
> >> >>  Hi Loris,
> >> >>
> >> >>  I always control temperature at around 70F, and
> >> >>  within certain limits I can also control RH.
> >> >>  However, for various reasons it is much easier to
> >> >>  control RH in the 50-60% range in my working room
> >> >>  than at the extremes.
> >> >>
> >> >>  At 55% RH I really like the results I get with
> >> >>  the Ware/Malde POP palladium process. Dmax is
> >> >>  excellent and the color is a nice warm black. In
> >> >>  some ways nicer than with DOP palladium. But if
> >> >>  the RH changes by as much as 5% there will be a
> >> >>  chance in image color, warmer going down, more
> >> >>  neutral going up. But this is ok, since I have
> >> >>  excellent control of RH in the 50-60% range.
> >> >>  However, the color shift with RH change is one of
> >> >>  the great attractions of the Ware/Malde method.
> >> >>  And with dichromate contrast control, which Mike
> >> >>  chose not to exploit, you can get contrast
> >> >>  control *and* the color you want. And without the
> >> >>  cessium salt needed with Ziatype.
> >> >>
> >> >>  However, if the type of image one likes is very
> >> >>  neutral black, Ziatype with the lithium salt by
> >> >>  itself gives great results. I would find it very
> >> >>  difficult to make this color with Ware/Malde
> >> >>  because a RH of 80% or so would be almost
> >> >>  impossible to obtain in my working environment.
> >> >>
> >> >>  Sandy
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>  At 8:16 PM +0200 11/29/06, Loris Medici wrote:
> >> >>>I see. Agree with you on the fact that making identical
> >> looking prints
> >> >>>  with
> >> >>>POP version (at least Ziatype) can be hard... But, that
> >> shouldn't that
> >> >>>  much
> >> >>>hard to you? I mean you have a lightsource with
> integrator,
> >> you can
> >> >>>  control
> >> >>>humidity and temperature in your working area, you're
> >> accustomed to be
> >> >>>consistent in coating + drying the paper (in fact, you're
> a
> >> master carbon
> >> >>>printer!). Do you still find hard to get consistent /
> close
> >> results?
> >> >>>
> >> >>>About compression in the shadows: I cheat, I artificially
> >> increase
> >> >>>  contrast
> >> >>>in the shadows. When you have problems - even if you have
> a
> >> perfect
> >> >>>calibration - some extra contrast boost in the shadows
> (it
> >> should look
> >> >>>almost weird on your screen) will do good in that
> aspect...
> >> The more
> >> >>>  texture
> >> >>>you have in the shadows, the less you have this "looks
> dull"
> >> problem. Low
> >> >>>key images with delicate tonal transitions make another
> >> problem - I think
> >> >>>Pt/Pd (or any other process which results a matte print)
> is
> >> not the best
> >> >>>choice for this type of imagery... Carbon is, in my
> >> understanding.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>Regards,
> >> >>>Loris.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>-----Original Message-----
> >> >>>From: Sandy King [mailto:sanking@clemson.edu]
> >> >>>Sent: 29 Kas¾m 2006 Çars¸amba 18:16
> >> >>>To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
> >> >>>Subject: RE: "New" Paper for Pt/Pd (and other iron
> >> processes, too)
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>What I meant by hard to beat is the consistency of DOP,
> i.e.
> >> the
> >> >>>  capability
> >> >>>of making multiple prints, all with the same density and
> >> color, without
> >> >>>worrying about changes in exposure.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>FAO with the ammonium salt gives beautiful chocolate
> colors,
> >> if printing
> >> >>>  at
> >> >>>low humidity.
> >> >>>But you need some type of contrast control if working
> with
> >> negatives of
> >> >>>  DR
> >> >>>of 1.8 or so intended for DOP palladium. You can actually
> >> get it by
> >> >>>  adding a
> >> >>>few drops of dichromate to the sensitizer, as you do with
> >> ziatype. There
> >> >>>  is
> >> >>>no down side to this as far as I can see, and the ability
> to
> >> control
> >> >>>contrast this way makes the Ware/Malde process quite
> >> flexible.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>FAO with the lithium salt (ziatype) also works well,
> though
> >> I have only
> >> >>>  made
> >> >>>a few prints with it. But for persons who like nice
> neutral
> >> black prints
> >> >  >>this is the way to go with palladium.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>But printing with Pt./Pd. drives me crazy at times. The
> >> prints always
> >> >>>  have
> >> >>>this glorious look when they are washing, and when you
> hang
> >> them up to
> >> >>>  dry.
> >> >>>Then you come back the next morning when they are dry and
> >> they look dull.
> >> >>>  By
> >> >>>contrast, carbon prints improve in look as they dry. I do
> >> find that a
> >> >>>  couple
> >> >>>of coats of some kind of clear gloss lacquer or varnish
> >> recovers some of
> >> >>>  the
> >> >>>wet look, but not all of it.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>Sandy
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >