U of S | Mailing List Archive | alt-photo-process-l | RE: Ware/Malde-Ziatype-DOP palladium,was RE: "New" Paper for Pt/Pd (an

RE: Ware/Malde-Ziatype-DOP palladium,was RE: "New" Paper for Pt/Pd (and other iron processes, too)



Eric,

I think we have a misunderstanding going here.  I didn't want to get into
a philosophical debate about where to draw the line between processes; I
merely used the names to distinguish the two methods.  I was only asking
for a visual color comparison between Ware/Malde POP and ziatype in their
"warm" spectrums...nothing too complicated.


Camden Hardy

camden[at]hardyphotography[dot]net
http://www.hardyphotography.net




On Thu, November 30, 2006 4:18 pm, EJN Photo wrote:
> Camden, I have not done a reflective reading for them to be able to give
> you
> color density reading. And as far as strict systems, I haven't work to the
> exact standards that you might apply to them. If I use ammonium palladium
> is
> that a traditional print? Or if I substitute sodium in the Ware/Malde
> system, am I no longer making a Ware/Malde print? I don't think so.
>
> Clay, did you make your prints with the ammonium platinum? If so, where
> are
> you getting it? I was able to pick some up from Englehard, but that was
> only
> a single order and it is all gone now.
>
> My AFO prints, whether you call them Ware/Malde or EJ_o_types, do show a
> bit
> more reddish quality. I can however get close to that with traditional
> solution and sodium citrate developer. I have not beat all those possible
> paths.
>
>
> Eric Neilsen Photography
> 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
> Dallas, TX 75226
> 214-827-8301
> http://ericneilsenphotography.com
>
> Skype : ejprinter> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Camden Hardy [mailto:camden@hardyphotography.net]
>> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 4:29 PM
>> To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
>> Subject: RE: Ware/Malde-Ziatype-DOP palladium, was RE: "New"
>> Paper for Pt/Pd (and other iron processes, too)
>>
>> > Camden, The Ware/Malde system should not lead you to a
>> specific color, nor
>> > does the Ziatype or Traditional DOP. They are all capable of
>> producing
>> > prints of various colors.
>>
>> I'm aware that both processes can be adjusted to create a warm
>> or cool
>> tone.  The articles I've read about each all had charts showing
>> the
>> factors that can shift from a cool to a warm tone.
>>
>> I asked the question because the term "warm" is fairly vague.
>> Sepia and
>> thiourea are both "warm" toners, but thiourea is more toward
>> the yellow
>> end.  "Warm" could mean red, yellow, pink (just kidding), etc.
>> I'm
>> wondering whether one process is capable of producing warm
>> colors that the
>> other can't.
>>
>>
>> Camden Hardy
>>
>> camden[at]hardyphotography[dot]net
>> http://www.hardyphotography.net
>>
>>
>>
>> > I think that you'd be better thinking of the reasons that any
>> pt/pd prints
>> > changes color and one of the biggest contributors to that is
>> humidity or
>> > lack thereof. There are big gereralizations that can be made
>> about PT, PD
>> > and humidity. There are also several very good ways to
>> develop these
>> > images
>> > that influence color.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Eric Neilsen Photography
>> > 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
>> > Dallas, TX 75226
>> > 214-827-8301
>> > http://ericneilsenphotography.com
>> >
>> > Skype : ejprinter> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Sandy King [mailto:sanking@clemson.edu]
>> >> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 12:30 PM
>> >> To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
>> >> Subject: Re: Ware/Malde-Ziatype-DOP palladium, was RE: "New"
>> >> Paper for Pt/Pd (and other iron processes, too)
>> >>
>> >> I have not done anything with ziatype other than
>> >> print with straight FAO plus lithium palladium
>> >> chloride.
>> >>
>> >> Sandy
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> At 8:21 AM -0700 11/30/06, Camden Hardy wrote:
>> >> >Sandy,
>> >> >
>> >> >Have you tried adding sodium tungstate to the ziatype
>> emulsion
>> >> to get
>> >> >warmer tones?
>> >> >
>> >> >If so, how does the color compare to that of the Ware/Malde
>> >> POP process?
>> >> >
>> >> >Camden Hardy
>> >> >
>> >> >camden[at]hardyphotography[dot]net
>> >> >http://www.hardyphotography.net
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >On Wed, November 29, 2006 10:37 pm, Sandy King wrote:
>> >> >>  Hi Loris,
>> >> >>
>> >> >>  I always control temperature at around 70F, and
>> >> >>  within certain limits I can also control RH.
>> >> >>  However, for various reasons it is much easier to
>> >> >>  control RH in the 50-60% range in my working room
>> >> >>  than at the extremes.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>  At 55% RH I really like the results I get with
>> >> >>  the Ware/Malde POP palladium process. Dmax is
>> >> >>  excellent and the color is a nice warm black. In
>> >> >>  some ways nicer than with DOP palladium. But if
>> >> >>  the RH changes by as much as 5% there will be a
>> >> >>  chance in image color, warmer going down, more
>> >> >>  neutral going up. But this is ok, since I have
>> >> >>  excellent control of RH in the 50-60% range.
>> >> >>  However, the color shift with RH change is one of
>> >> >>  the great attractions of the Ware/Malde method.
>> >> >>  And with dichromate contrast control, which Mike
>> >> >>  chose not to exploit, you can get contrast
>> >> >>  control *and* the color you want. And without the
>> >> >>  cessium salt needed with Ziatype.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>  However, if the type of image one likes is very
>> >> >>  neutral black, Ziatype with the lithium salt by
>> >> >>  itself gives great results. I would find it very
>> >> >>  difficult to make this color with Ware/Malde
>> >> >>  because a RH of 80% or so would be almost
>> >> >>  impossible to obtain in my working environment.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>  Sandy
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>  At 8:16 PM +0200 11/29/06, Loris Medici wrote:
>> >> >>>I see. Agree with you on the fact that making identical
>> >> looking prints
>> >> >>>  with
>> >> >>>POP version (at least Ziatype) can be hard... But, that
>> >> shouldn't that
>> >> >>>  much
>> >> >>>hard to you? I mean you have a lightsource with
>> integrator,
>> >> you can
>> >> >>>  control
>> >> >>>humidity and temperature in your working area, you're
>> >> accustomed to be
>> >> >>>consistent in coating + drying the paper (in fact, you're
>> a
>> >> master carbon
>> >> >>>printer!). Do you still find hard to get consistent /
>> close
>> >> results?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>About compression in the shadows: I cheat, I artificially
>> >> increase
>> >> >>>  contrast
>> >> >>>in the shadows. When you have problems - even if you have
>> a
>> >> perfect
>> >> >>>calibration - some extra contrast boost in the shadows
>> (it
>> >> should look
>> >> >>>almost weird on your screen) will do good in that
>> aspect...
>> >> The more
>> >> >>>  texture
>> >> >>>you have in the shadows, the less you have this "looks
>> dull"
>> >> problem. Low
>> >> >>>key images with delicate tonal transitions make another
>> >> problem - I think
>> >> >>>Pt/Pd (or any other process which results a matte print)
>> is
>> >> not the best
>> >> >>>choice for this type of imagery... Carbon is, in my
>> >> understanding.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Regards,
>> >> >>>Loris.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>-----Original Message-----
>> >> >>>From: Sandy King [mailto:sanking@clemson.edu]
>> >> >>>Sent: 29 Kas¾m 2006 Çars¸amba 18:16
>> >> >>>To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
>> >> >>>Subject: RE: "New" Paper for Pt/Pd (and other iron
>> >> processes, too)
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>What I meant by hard to beat is the consistency of DOP,
>> i.e.
>> >> the
>> >> >>>  capability
>> >> >>>of making multiple prints, all with the same density and
>> >> color, without
>> >> >>>worrying about changes in exposure.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>FAO with the ammonium salt gives beautiful chocolate
>> colors,
>> >> if printing
>> >> >>>  at
>> >> >>>low humidity.
>> >> >>>But you need some type of contrast control if working
>> with
>> >> negatives of
>> >> >>>  DR
>> >> >>>of 1.8 or so intended for DOP palladium. You can actually
>> >> get it by
>> >> >>>  adding a
>> >> >>>few drops of dichromate to the sensitizer, as you do with
>> >> ziatype. There
>> >> >>>  is
>> >> >>>no down side to this as far as I can see, and the ability
>> to
>> >> control
>> >> >>>contrast this way makes the Ware/Malde process quite
>> >> flexible.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>FAO with the lithium salt (ziatype) also works well,
>> though
>> >> I have only
>> >> >>>  made
>> >> >>>a few prints with it. But for persons who like nice
>> neutral
>> >> black prints
>> >> >  >>this is the way to go with palladium.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>But printing with Pt./Pd. drives me crazy at times. The
>> >> prints always
>> >> >>>  have
>> >> >>>this glorious look when they are washing, and when you
>> hang
>> >> them up to
>> >> >>>  dry.
>> >> >>>Then you come back the next morning when they are dry and
>> >> they look dull.
>> >> >>>  By
>> >> >>>contrast, carbon prints improve in look as they dry. I do
>> >> find that a
>> >> >>>  couple
>> >> >>>of coats of some kind of clear gloss lacquer or varnish
>> >> recovers some of
>> >> >>>  the
>> >> >>>wet look, but not all of it.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Sandy
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
>