RE: Ware/Malde-Ziatype-DOP palladium,was RE: "New" Paper for Pt/Pd (and other iron processes, too)
Eric, I think we have a misunderstanding going here. I didn't want to get into a philosophical debate about where to draw the line between processes; I merely used the names to distinguish the two methods. I was only asking for a visual color comparison between Ware/Malde POP and ziatype in their "warm" spectrums...nothing too complicated. Camden Hardy camden[at]hardyphotography[dot]net http://www.hardyphotography.net On Thu, November 30, 2006 4:18 pm, EJN Photo wrote: > Camden, I have not done a reflective reading for them to be able to give > you > color density reading. And as far as strict systems, I haven't work to the > exact standards that you might apply to them. If I use ammonium palladium > is > that a traditional print? Or if I substitute sodium in the Ware/Malde > system, am I no longer making a Ware/Malde print? I don't think so. > > Clay, did you make your prints with the ammonium platinum? If so, where > are > you getting it? I was able to pick some up from Englehard, but that was > only > a single order and it is all gone now. > > My AFO prints, whether you call them Ware/Malde or EJ_o_types, do show a > bit > more reddish quality. I can however get close to that with traditional > solution and sodium citrate developer. I have not beat all those possible > paths. > > > Eric Neilsen Photography > 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9 > Dallas, TX 75226 > 214-827-8301 > http://ericneilsenphotography.com > > Skype : ejprinter> -----Original Message----- >> From: Camden Hardy [mailto:camden@hardyphotography.net] >> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 4:29 PM >> To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca >> Subject: RE: Ware/Malde-Ziatype-DOP palladium, was RE: "New" >> Paper for Pt/Pd (and other iron processes, too) >> >> > Camden, The Ware/Malde system should not lead you to a >> specific color, nor >> > does the Ziatype or Traditional DOP. They are all capable of >> producing >> > prints of various colors. >> >> I'm aware that both processes can be adjusted to create a warm >> or cool >> tone. The articles I've read about each all had charts showing >> the >> factors that can shift from a cool to a warm tone. >> >> I asked the question because the term "warm" is fairly vague. >> Sepia and >> thiourea are both "warm" toners, but thiourea is more toward >> the yellow >> end. "Warm" could mean red, yellow, pink (just kidding), etc. >> I'm >> wondering whether one process is capable of producing warm >> colors that the >> other can't. >> >> >> Camden Hardy >> >> camden[at]hardyphotography[dot]net >> http://www.hardyphotography.net >> >> >> >> > I think that you'd be better thinking of the reasons that any >> pt/pd prints >> > changes color and one of the biggest contributors to that is >> humidity or >> > lack thereof. There are big gereralizations that can be made >> about PT, PD >> > and humidity. There are also several very good ways to >> develop these >> > images >> > that influence color. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Eric Neilsen Photography >> > 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9 >> > Dallas, TX 75226 >> > 214-827-8301 >> > http://ericneilsenphotography.com >> > >> > Skype : ejprinter> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Sandy King [mailto:sanking@clemson.edu] >> >> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 12:30 PM >> >> To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca >> >> Subject: Re: Ware/Malde-Ziatype-DOP palladium, was RE: "New" >> >> Paper for Pt/Pd (and other iron processes, too) >> >> >> >> I have not done anything with ziatype other than >> >> print with straight FAO plus lithium palladium >> >> chloride. >> >> >> >> Sandy >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> At 8:21 AM -0700 11/30/06, Camden Hardy wrote: >> >> >Sandy, >> >> > >> >> >Have you tried adding sodium tungstate to the ziatype >> emulsion >> >> to get >> >> >warmer tones? >> >> > >> >> >If so, how does the color compare to that of the Ware/Malde >> >> POP process? >> >> > >> >> >Camden Hardy >> >> > >> >> >camden[at]hardyphotography[dot]net >> >> >http://www.hardyphotography.net >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >On Wed, November 29, 2006 10:37 pm, Sandy King wrote: >> >> >> Hi Loris, >> >> >> >> >> >> I always control temperature at around 70F, and >> >> >> within certain limits I can also control RH. >> >> >> However, for various reasons it is much easier to >> >> >> control RH in the 50-60% range in my working room >> >> >> than at the extremes. >> >> >> >> >> >> At 55% RH I really like the results I get with >> >> >> the Ware/Malde POP palladium process. Dmax is >> >> >> excellent and the color is a nice warm black. In >> >> >> some ways nicer than with DOP palladium. But if >> >> >> the RH changes by as much as 5% there will be a >> >> >> chance in image color, warmer going down, more >> >> >> neutral going up. But this is ok, since I have >> >> >> excellent control of RH in the 50-60% range. >> >> >> However, the color shift with RH change is one of >> >> >> the great attractions of the Ware/Malde method. >> >> >> And with dichromate contrast control, which Mike >> >> >> chose not to exploit, you can get contrast >> >> >> control *and* the color you want. And without the >> >> >> cessium salt needed with Ziatype. >> >> >> >> >> >> However, if the type of image one likes is very >> >> >> neutral black, Ziatype with the lithium salt by >> >> >> itself gives great results. I would find it very >> >> >> difficult to make this color with Ware/Malde >> >> >> because a RH of 80% or so would be almost >> >> >> impossible to obtain in my working environment. >> >> >> >> >> >> Sandy >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> At 8:16 PM +0200 11/29/06, Loris Medici wrote: >> >> >>>I see. Agree with you on the fact that making identical >> >> looking prints >> >> >>> with >> >> >>>POP version (at least Ziatype) can be hard... But, that >> >> shouldn't that >> >> >>> much >> >> >>>hard to you? I mean you have a lightsource with >> integrator, >> >> you can >> >> >>> control >> >> >>>humidity and temperature in your working area, you're >> >> accustomed to be >> >> >>>consistent in coating + drying the paper (in fact, you're >> a >> >> master carbon >> >> >>>printer!). Do you still find hard to get consistent / >> close >> >> results? >> >> >>> >> >> >>>About compression in the shadows: I cheat, I artificially >> >> increase >> >> >>> contrast >> >> >>>in the shadows. When you have problems - even if you have >> a >> >> perfect >> >> >>>calibration - some extra contrast boost in the shadows >> (it >> >> should look >> >> >>>almost weird on your screen) will do good in that >> aspect... >> >> The more >> >> >>> texture >> >> >>>you have in the shadows, the less you have this "looks >> dull" >> >> problem. Low >> >> >>>key images with delicate tonal transitions make another >> >> problem - I think >> >> >>>Pt/Pd (or any other process which results a matte print) >> is >> >> not the best >> >> >>>choice for this type of imagery... Carbon is, in my >> >> understanding. >> >> >>> >> >> >>>Regards, >> >> >>>Loris. >> >> >>> >> >> >>>-----Original Message----- >> >> >>>From: Sandy King [mailto:sanking@clemson.edu] >> >> >>>Sent: 29 Kas¾m 2006 Çars¸amba 18:16 >> >> >>>To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca >> >> >>>Subject: RE: "New" Paper for Pt/Pd (and other iron >> >> processes, too) >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>>What I meant by hard to beat is the consistency of DOP, >> i.e. >> >> the >> >> >>> capability >> >> >>>of making multiple prints, all with the same density and >> >> color, without >> >> >>>worrying about changes in exposure. >> >> >>> >> >> >>>FAO with the ammonium salt gives beautiful chocolate >> colors, >> >> if printing >> >> >>> at >> >> >>>low humidity. >> >> >>>But you need some type of contrast control if working >> with >> >> negatives of >> >> >>> DR >> >> >>>of 1.8 or so intended for DOP palladium. You can actually >> >> get it by >> >> >>> adding a >> >> >>>few drops of dichromate to the sensitizer, as you do with >> >> ziatype. There >> >> >>> is >> >> >>>no down side to this as far as I can see, and the ability >> to >> >> control >> >> >>>contrast this way makes the Ware/Malde process quite >> >> flexible. >> >> >>> >> >> >>>FAO with the lithium salt (ziatype) also works well, >> though >> >> I have only >> >> >>> made >> >> >>>a few prints with it. But for persons who like nice >> neutral >> >> black prints >> >> > >>this is the way to go with palladium. >> >> >>> >> >> >>>But printing with Pt./Pd. drives me crazy at times. The >> >> prints always >> >> >>> have >> >> >>>this glorious look when they are washing, and when you >> hang >> >> them up to >> >> >>> dry. >> >> >>>Then you come back the next morning when they are dry and >> >> they look dull. >> >> >>> By >> >> >>>contrast, carbon prints improve in look as they dry. I do >> >> find that a >> >> >>> couple >> >> >>>of coats of some kind of clear gloss lacquer or varnish >> >> recovers some of >> >> >>> the >> >> >>>wet look, but not all of it. >> >> >>> >> >> >>>Sandy >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > >
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