Re: Jose Ortiz-Echague and Fresson
Sorry about the delayed response . . . busy at my paying work. I will bring a color and a monochrome Fresson to APIS (along with a few of my prints) if anyone wants to view them. The color prints are almost have a pointalation effect. Some find it very appealing. My personal preference has been the monochromes which exhibit an intense/dead matte shadow tone. Art On Tue, 22 May 2007 08:13:02 -0600, Christina Z. Anderson wrote > John, > Mind you, all these musings are from a Fresson-unknowledgeable > person: Why do you think Nadeau bugged Echague and not Fressons for > the machine/formula? And what is the URL for Dave Soemarko's Fresson > example? > > I think I ask these questions because I was intrigued--during my > library project, a project that I THOUGHT would take a week and it > is now stretching into three (do you know how much time it takes to > individually page through 3700 books??!! But I'm down to 1800) I > came across Fresson examples of Sheila Metzner and Debra Turbeville. > I've always liked the grainy, almost autochrome quality of > Metzner's work, but when I saw her book on landscapes I wasn't as > impressed. Now, perhaps these were poor repros and the actual > prints are huge and beautiful...but there was a sense I had of this: > > If the prints looked like autochromes, and more than likely there is > a combo of gelatin and gum in the mix (if you check Art Chakalis' > patent this is so), why couldn't one just mimic the look of > autochromes by doing tricolor sep diginegs, and use just gum and > even grain the negs up in computer > (gasp!)? Or add gelatin to the gum mix? > > I say this, never having seen a tricolor Fresson in person...and > never having mixed gelatin and gum as Art has done..but Echague in > this article talks of the reason to use Fresson is it is more > durable during development > (presumably the gelatin helps that out), etc. etc. Chris > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Grocott" <john.grocott403@ntlworld.com> > To: <alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca> > Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 7:48 AM > Subject: Re: Jose Ortiz-Echague and Fresson > > > How are you doing Art? > > And Hi to the six hundred, > > Yes, and then Luis Nadeau > > pursued Echague for many years, maybe ten, to persuade him to divulge the > > secret ''Fresson'' Direct Carbon formulae ( Carbondir), and Luis > > eventually purchased the machine and the formula from Echague which is > > languishing in store somewhere in Canada and is too complicated and messy > > to use viably. I presume Luis meant profitably. I also know Bill Foster, > > personally, who provided me with a drawing of the machine done by > > Echague's son, Edward. There are no definite instructions with this crude > > drawing and I feel, that laughably, it has little or nothing to do > > with, as Sandy suggests, the ''secret'' Fresson coating. Good old Hake > > brushes will fill the bill to coat the emulsions. Not a machine. > > Regarding the Fresson family business, still running, I > > am prepared to respect their decision to keep their formulae under wraps. > > Even if I learned of their secret............what would I do with it? > > Sell it? Call it by another name?Write about it in my publication and sell > > that? If anyone has actually seen a Fresson print or a good repro they may > > understand why thousands of alternative and straight photographers, > > educators and entrepreneurs want to know. However, there are similar > > processes giving results which could be regarded as ''Fresson like'' in > > appearance. The one Dave Somarkoe currently has one the web is a good > > example, in my opinion. But I dont suppose Dave, like the Fressons, is > > prepared to let us into his secrets either. After all the many, many tests > > and trials needed to arrive at a workable formula such as this, neither > > would I, myself, be happy to give it away to others who might use it for > > personal gain with no financial credit to the originator. > > > > What happened to your process , Art? Good luck, Dave! ! It seems > > you may have a lot of work, and responsibility to clients, ahead of you. > > A very interesting and never ending discussion. It comes > > up every so often. BTW. Anyone concerned with more info on the Fresson > > mystery please see Judy Siegel's #9 issue of Post Factory Photography. > > > > How many bucks is the secret process worth? The bidding starts at > > one quarter of a million. Any advances? > > Happy Summer days. > > John - Photographist- London - UK. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <achakali@wideopenwest.com> > > To: <alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca> > > Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 5:22 AM > > Subject: Re: Jose Ortiz-Echague and Fresson > > > > > >> Based upon accounts from Bill Foster, who actually knew and photographed > >> with > >> Echague, the machine and formula was purchased from the Fresson family. > >> Additionally, the "carbondir" was apparently a part of the agreement to > >> not > >> use the Fresson name for the paper Echague produced. > >> > >> Art > >> > >> > >> On Tue, 22 May 2007 00:09:57 -0400, Sandy King wrote > >>> There is also he possibility that money exchanged hands. I don't > >>> know that for a fact, but Ortiz-Echague was definitely a person of > >>> means. > >>> > >>> Sandy King > >>> > >>> At 11:57 PM -0400 5/21/07, Sandy King wrote: > >>> >Chris. > >>> > > >>> >Several reasons I can suggest. > >>> > > >>> >There may also be personal connections of which I am not aware. But > >>> >here are some of the things that may have moved them. > >>> > > >>> >At the time Ortiz-Echague was one of the most famous photographers > >>> >in Europe, and had been using the Fresson paper for almost 50 years. > >>> >Perhaps they felt that they owed him the favor. > >>> > > >>> >And, he was one of the most powerful men in Spain and a person of > >>> >great accomplishments outside of photography. He was one of the > >>> >first pilots in the Spanish, rose to the rank of General in the > >>> >Army, and served as President of both SEAT (a company that produced > >>> >cars) and of another company that produced airplanes. > >>> > > >>> >Basically, I figure they came to the conclusion that their secrets > >>> >were safe with him, given his age at the time and his status in > >>> >Spanish society. > >>> > > >>> >Sandy > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > At 9:41 PM -0600 5/21/07, Christina Z. Anderson wrote: > >>> >>When the Fresson family > >>> >>ceased commercial distribution of the paper they > >>> >>provided him with the technical knowledge to coat > >>> >>his own paper, and he constructed a coating > >>> >>machine and thereafter called his process > >>> >>"carbondir" (carbon directo) so as not to offend > >>> >>the Fressons. > >>> >> > >>> >>Sandy, > >>> >>Why would, do you think, the Fresson family share their secrets > >>> >>with him and yet not with anyone else since then? > >>> >> > >>> >>I notice they still do Sheila Metzner's work as well as Deborah > >>> >>Turbeville's... > >>> >>Chris > >> > >> > >> -- > >> WOW! Homepage (http://www.wowway.com) > >> > > > > -- WOW! Homepage (http://www.wowway.com)
|