Re: Was Re: Bromoil Video, now oil printing
Henk,
You are so kind for the description, below! So it seems that gumoil uses
gum, oil printing uses gelatin...interesting.
When I was in grad school I came across a printmaking studio that was doing
this incredible silkscreen process with layer upon layer upon layer....what
they would do is use this clear silkscreen gel stuff and do a few coats of
that with the image through the silkscreen. That would dry--invisible--and
then they would card dorland's wax medium mixed with pigment that would be
repelled by the clear image. I did a couple editions that way and really
liked the effect. Seems this repelling effect can be used to advantage in
several different ways.
Oh hell, here are my notes, because it is easier to give directions than
explain it--not that it is alt, but perhaps there are printmakers here that
will benefit:
1. Register paper.
2. Use a negative instead of a positive on white paper, or a positive
instead of a negative on black paper. The silkscreened image reverses to
produce the highlights of the print.
3. Silkscreen the transparent base onto the paper; one time will produce
lower contrast, multiple times will increase contrast and depth of tone as
the image will build up in height. If possible, leave the silkscreen in
place and do the layers over and over at once so that
registration will be more perfect that way. I did 3 layers on 20 prints in
one session, over and over, as it dries quickly.
4. Mix powdered pigment or oil paint or oil based inks into Dorland's wax
medium. Don't use that much. Mush it together with a palette knife.
5. Card or scrape the print with the waxy color over and over. The image
will appear as the waxy color will absorb into the paper where the screened
image is not.
6. You can buff it with a cloth, and add more highlights by rubbing off
pigment anywhere you don't want it on top of the silkscreen image part. If
it doesn't look right, card it/scrape it again and again.
7. I silkscreened on top of a waxed print and it worked fine, too. I'm not
sure if eventually the wax underneath will reject this, but it has
possibilities for layering.
I leave in an hour for the mountains of North Carolina for two weeks, to
assist Lewis. It will be interesting because he does bromoil using a
printer RIP to do his diginegs and I will attempt to calibrate bromoil with
Nelson's PDN. His system, of course, uses the printer to do the curve and
PDN uses no printer adjustment and the curve and image are all preadjusted
in Photoshop. Of course the interesting thing is that Lewis needs an
imperfect BW print (low contrast, dark and dull) so I will somehow have to
take this into account.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "henk thijs" <henk.thijs@hetnet.nl>
To: <alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca>
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: Was Re: Bromoil Video, now oil printing
Hi Chris,
The differences between the processes BROMOILPRINTING and OILPRINTING I
can explain, I did BROMOIL in the beginning as a start due to the fact
that no large negs were needed; i had experience with silver gelatine
printing, but not with creating lith-negs or using pot. dichromate.
After the inspiring discussions on the list and the first issues of Judys
POSTFACTORY i started to make large negs to make cyanotypes and
gumprints, and at that time also there was the problem of getting
bromoilpaper, so i started for info to make OIL-prints.
Ok, but now back to Bromoil and oil printing.
BROMOIL : you start with a silver gelatine print , just in a way you
produce a normal B/W print, exposure, developing, fixing, washing, drying
and then as a next step : bleaching/tanning , fixing, washing, drying ,
and the result is a paper containing the image more or less hidden in the
gelatine of the paper. (normally you see a faint image)
This is called the MATRIX.
OIL: just take your 300grs aquarel paper or equivalent -like Fabriano 5,
Arches etc.- coat several times with a 10 percent gelatine, let dry, coat
with a 6 percent Pot. Dichromate, let dry , and now just proceed as for
gum, put the neg. on top , expose about 50 percent more compared to
gum-printing.
Wash and now you the MATRIX, like the one mentioned above for BROMOIL.
From now on the procedure is the same for both: about 15 to 30 minutes in
water, on a sheet of glas, removing excess of water, waiting a few
minutes, inking.
So, you see, for 'alt-process' people , who are familiar with large
negatives, with coating of gelatine and di-chromates, exposing with
UV -sources --> the way to OIL-printing is obvious, especially due to
the fact that silver-gelatine paper is since WorldWar 2 very often harded
to prevent damage with scratches for miltary purposes , since then the
necessary swelling of the gelatine is a problem.
The paper which is often used is Kentmere DocArt (also by Gryspeerdt) and
Berger, and also David Lewis has his own bromoilpaper, anyway, i hope i
made my point :-)
Succes,
Cheers,
Henk
On 9 aug 2007, at 16:24, Christina Z. Anderson wrote:
Thank you for this, below, henk.
You mention oil printing. I notice in all the research I've been
through, mentions of "oil printing", "Rawlin's oil", now there is
"gumoil" by Koenig, etc. and I was wondering if you knew any of the
differences? I mean, I know "brom-oil" uses a bromide print as the
basis (thus it is an enlarging process which is a wonderful thing) but
what I find interesting is that both Puyo and Demachy did a fair amount
of oil printing, in fact, Demachy quit gum after 10 years and defected
to oil printing if I remember my history correctly. So I wonder what
the processes are, and what was the draw.
Chris
----- Original Message ----- From: "henk thijs" <henk.thijs@hetnet.nl>
To: <alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 9:46 AM
Subject: Bromoil Video
Hi Chris,
For comparing the two methods -David Lewis & Gryspeerdt- maybe i can
give you a bit of info:
In the method creating the bromoil print as such is no difference,
both work as a start with bromoil paper -Gryspeerdt used in his video
Kentmere DocArt- and David lets make his own bromoil-paper; in
principle both are more or less not hardened silver gelatine papers,
the Kentmere is structured and thinner.
Both are producing the matrix in the same way, both are using bromoil
brushes etc.
The difference is the treatment afterwards, for David Lewis the
process is ready (if not wishing to make a bromoil transfer) after
inking, by Gryspeerdt it is just a start when inking is done. He will
now start producing the image he wants (ugly items, eliminating
'wrong' doorsteps, retouching .... ) by scraping ink away, using
erasers, sandpaper etc. ; he invests more time after the inking
compared to the whole matrix making and inking.
(Nowadays we would all do this with Photoshop in creating digital
negatives and making oilprints; far more easier ....)
Just maybe of interest for you: try to get more info about oil-
printing (in Davids book it is a bit poor on that item), it is in
principle the original process and especially when you have negatives
for gum and some chromate, to make the matrix is a piece of cake.
Best greetings to Lewis, I exchanged bromoil prints with him and i am
using his ink.
Have fun,
Cheers,
Henk
On 2 aug 2007, at 16:00, Christina Z. Anderson wrote:
You think that's bad, George--there's a minimum overseas order of
L100! So
if someone wants to make a buck, they should buy 5 copies and sell on
Ebay
with Paypal.
I will be going down to North Carolina to assist David Lewis' 2 week
bromoil workshop August 10th, so I was hoping to get a copy to see
before I went down there so I could compare the methods.
Chris
----- Original Message ----- From: "George L Smyth"
<glsmyth@yahoo.com>
To: <alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca>
Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 6:37 AM
Subject: Re: Bromoil Video
Crumb, just noticed that regardless, there is a minimum order of 25
Euros,
so
I'm out of luck. I have created a daily search on eBay so that I'll
know
when
it comes available again.
Cheers -
george
--- Josh Verduzco <joshverd@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi George,
Youre right there is not a "buy this item" button. You have to
find the
"serial number" and put it into the order form:
https://www.silverprint.co.uk/orderform.html .
Josh
----Original Message Follows----
From: George L Smyth <glsmyth@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
Subject: Re: Bromoil Video
Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 05:31:19 -0700 (PDT)
Josh -
Thanks for the info. I actually had come across that page, but
there is
nowhere to select it for purchase. The description of the item is
there,
as
is
the price (apparently, as I am guessing that one of the two numbers
in
the
lower right corner is a price), but I couldn't find anything to
click on
to
say, "Yes, I wish to buy this item." I came to the conclusion that
these
must
be prices that are available when you go to their physical store,
as I
couldn't
figure out how to buy anything.
Cheers -
george
--- Josh Verduzco <joshverd@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi George,
> The DVD is available on the silverprint website:
> http://www.silverprint.co.uk/altproc12.html .
> Enjoy.
>
> Josh Verduzco
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: George L Smyth <glsmyth@yahoo.com>
> Reply-To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
> To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
> Subject: Re: Bromoil Video
> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:41:50 -0700 (PDT)
>
> Thanks for the responses. I did find this site earlier (which is
where I
> looked at the click from the DVD), but I can't find anywhere on
the
site
> that
> the DVD is actually available. It does say that someday it will
be
sold
on
> eBay, but that's about it.
>
> Cheers -
>
> george
>
>
> --- dhowk <dhowk@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > Try http://www.gryspeerdt.co.uk/ The DVD is excellent. From
what I
> > remember, his technique is somewhat different from a couple of
other
> > experts - Gene Laughter (Bromoil 101) and David Lewis (The
Art of
> > Bromoil & Transfer).
> > Doug Howk
> >
> > On Jul 29, 2007, at 7:03 PM, dklinker wrote:
> >
> > > Hi George if you do a google you will see that Normans son
Andrew
> > > runs a site where both the video and the DVD can be
obtained.
Well
> > > worth trying to obtain a copy he was a real master of the
Bromoil
> > > process.
> > > Dennis Klinker
> > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "George L Smyth"
> > > <glsmyth@yahoo.com>
> > > To: <alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca>
> > > Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2007 11:09 PM
> > > Subject: Bromoil Video
> > >
> > >
> > >> I have been struggling with Bromoil and was hoping to find
the
> > >> video by Norman
> > >> Gryspeerdt, but without success. Does it exist anywhere?
I
came
> > >> across some
> > >> snippets of the video and found it interesting that where
Gene
> > >> Laughter
> > >> describes a particular means of working with the ink by
gently
> > >> bouncing the
> > >> brush, Norman Gryspeerdt apparently smashes the brush into
the
> > >> print, basically
> > >> proving that there is no single way to do this.
> > >>
> > >> So if anyone could point me to a source for the video/ DVD
then I
> > >> would
> > >> appreciate the help.
> > >>
> > >> Cheers -
> > >>
> > >> george
> > >>
> > >> -------------------------------------
> > >> Eclectic Mix: http://EclecticMix.com
> > >> One Minute How-To: http://OneMinuteHowTo.com
> > >> DRiP Investing: http://DRiPInvesting.org
> > >>
> > >> Handmade Photographic Images: http://www.GLSmyth.com -
Blog:
> > >> GLSmyth.Wordpress.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> -------------------------------------
>
> Eclectic Mix: http://EclecticMix.com
> One Minute How-To: http://OneMinuteHowTo.com
> DRiP Investing: http://DRiPInvesting.org
>
> Handmade Photographic Images: http://www.GLSmyth.com - Blog:
> GLSmyth.Wordpress.com
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> http://newlivehotmail.com
>
>
-------------------------------------
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DRiP Investing: http://DRiPInvesting.org
Handmade Photographic Images: http://www.GLSmyth.com - Blog:
GLSmyth.Wordpress.com
_________________________________________________________________
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-------------------------------------
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One Minute How-To: http://OneMinuteHowTo.com
DRiP Investing: http://DRiPInvesting.org
Handmade Photographic Images: http://www.GLSmyth.com - Blog:
GLSmyth.Wordpress.com
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