On Dec 4, 2007, at 1:57 AM, Judy Seigel wrote:
> Gordon -- You're "proving" that some concepts existed. I don't
> doubt it. I'm talking about everyday life.
>
> So what if I *heard* of the "speedo swimsuit" ?-- a piece of
> clothing you wore, and written up as such. I NEVER saw one on a
> person or knew a person who had one, making it extra beside the
> point. I also heard of graham crackers and smelling salts and touch
> your toes and chew 100 times before swallowing and endless wacko
> "health" plans, some of which indeed reached the mainstream -- what
> was the one about drinking vinegar? (I think you mixed it with
> something.) Not to mention "pink pills for pale people," Wheaties,
> breakfast of champions, and Wonder Bread that built strong bodies 8
> ways.
>
> Meanwhile, when I speak of "gym culture" and reaching the masses, I
> mean the ordinary person, not just the babe in the speedo, but
> middle aged, middle class, and OLD age and "working class" who NOW
> go to a gym and regularly "work out."
>
> That there was *a* health club chain" in 1870 is not this
> argument. I knew HUNDREDS, probably THOUSANDS of people and NONE
> of them went there. No college friend, no neighbor, no relative or
> colleague, not even a mere acquaintance belonged to a gym that I
> ever heard of.... until, oh maybe 1970 oe 80. True, there was
> "physical therapy" in cases of accident or illness or even
> congenital disability, but that's "medicine" not gym.
>
> That various strategies were available to those who wished or
> needed them or had them prescribed, is simply not this
> discussion... & again 100% beside the point. Yes, my husband was
> in the army circa 1955 and had "basic training," ie, marching in
> the heat of some South Carolina bog until half of them passed out.
> That was NOT gym culture, and neither he nor any of his army
> buddies went anywhere near a "gym" voluntarily until much later (in
> fact that army experience probably innoculated them against it).
>
> But I would gladly explain the meaning of language, including such
> terms such as "mass culture" and "mainstream" to your historian
> friend. If he shares your interpretation of this discussion, he
> clearly needs help.
>
> PS. I probably read more books than your buddy and my father worked
> for the NY Times -- we had 3 newspapers in the house daily & I read
> many items BESIDES the funnies. I never heard of Annette Kellerman
> or Million Dollar Mermaid either (what could SHE do at a gym
> anyway? Ride the bicycle?)
>
> cheers,
>
> Judy
>
> On Sun, 2 Dec 2007, Gordon Cooper wrote:
>
>> Judy Seigel wrote:
>>> On Sun, 2 Dec 2007, Gordon Cooper wrote:
>>>> There was a health club chain open in the US c. 1870 with the
>>>> development of the "Health Lift"reactionary lifting machine.
>>>> Club swinging, parallel bars and pulley weights were standard
>>>> too. Oh, and a lot of the gyms were for women, as Jan Todd and
>>>> other historians of Physical Culture have noted. Genevieve
>>>> Stebbins, the Delsarte proponent was a paid member of the Dudley
>>>> Sargent gymnasium at Harvard c. 1890. A number of schools
>>>> implemented the Delsarte method of physical culture training as
>>>> described by Stebbins and her contemporaries. A quick perusal of
>>>> early issues of "Health and Strength" or "Physical Culture"
>>>> magazine will reveal ads for quite a few gyms and facilities for
>>>> women (and men). "Pudgy" Stockton was a professional bodybuilder
>>>> in the 1930's, and she was by no means the first.
>>> Actually, Gordon, you may be proving my point !!!! My family
>>> subscribed at one time or another to a dozen magazines & read a
>>> dozen more at various times. We never ever even HEARD of the
>>> physical culture magazines you cite. Today when I walk to the
>>> post office I pass 3 gyms in one direction and going to the main
>>> post office in the other direction I pass two.
>>> My point isn't that there were no gyms or "physical culture," but
>>> that something happened to bring this culture to the masses, into
>>> the mainstream -- to put the Crunch gym on Hudson Street with 100
>>> people using the stair master at street level on view behind a
>>> wall of glass. (Well, maybe not 100 people at once, but if you
>>> stood there for a couple of hours.....)
>>> Or walk east from the post office on Christopher Street, you pass
>>> two more...I don't recall ever seeing a gym or even hearing of
>>> one in my "youth," which believe it or not was well into the 20th
>>> century. Today even my heterosexual friends in for gods sake THE
>>> SUBURBS belong to gyms.
>>> What more can I say?
>> Um.. Judy, it was mainstream. Several times. I take it you've
>> heard of the Speedo swim suit? Annette Kellerman? Million Dollar
>> Mermaid? The New York Times? Did your family read the Times in
>> 1904? 1927? 1891? Army calisthenics? Did you have a family member
>> in the armed forces after 1870? If so, they participated in the
>> mainstream of Physical Culture.
>>
>> The mainstream is defined by whether or not you or your family
>> have heard of something or participated in it?
>>
>> Try suggesting that to my historian friend, Ronald Hutton. But
>> duck quickly.
>>
>> Gordon Cooper
>>
>>
>>
>