Re: Pigments for neutral color balance in gum: (Re: Fish Eyes again)
Thanks Katharine. Before dismissing PV19, I will first try using PB15:3 as the blue. Since the spacing between PY42/43 and PV19 is fine (albeit in the opposite direction of what McEvoy suggests; a yellow closer to the magenta instead of a magenta closer to the yellow), and PB15:3 is right opposite to them. If that doesn't give me acceptable results, then will try with a brighter / colder yellow and a redder magenta. For the moment I like PY42/43 because if gives nice / contrasty gradation gradations unlike the brighter yellows (I simply can't see the gradations when printing with a bright / transparent yellow). Regards, Loris. 17 Eylül 2008, Çarşamba, 5:38 pm tarihinde, Katharine Thayer yazmış: > Hi Loris, sorry about taking off on a tangent. I'm just guessing > here, because I've not used that yellow (and would recommend using > handprint's mixing triangle as an initial screen, as I suggest on my > tricolor page) but I would definitely suggest a less blue magenta > with your combination. I've had good results with PR 175, a deep > scarlet, with ultramarine and PY110, and Marek recently reported > doing well with perylene maroon (PR179)-- which has a very similar > hue to PR175-- with PY 150, which is also kind of an off-the-beaten- > path yellow, and indanthrone, which like ultramarine, has more red in > it than a true cyan. > > It's a casual observation (I haven't done a careful study of this) > that PV 19 is more likely to be implicated in those ugly purplish > brown "neutrals" than other pigments; I use it only with yellows and > blues that stay pretty close to the pure primary hue. Since the > ultramarine is redder than a true cyan, you need a yellower red > rather than a bluer red like PV19 to balance it, and so forth. The > way I think of it is that in order to produce neutrals you need your > three colors to be sort of equidistant on the color wheel, and if one > is hue-shifted in one direction, then the others need to be shifted > in the same direction. Which is an implication of Bruce McEvoy's > mixing triangle: the triangle needs to enclose the center of the > triangle in order to be able to produce a neutral black; if the > triangle is way skewed from equilateral, it may not contain the > center (black) and the three colors layered won't add to black. If > that doesn't make sense, then I need to find a way to write it better. > Katharine > > > > > On Sep 17, 2008, at 12:08 AM, Loris Medici wrote: > >> "PV19 -> strong paint" is a side note, irrelevant to the main subject >> fisheyes... I use very little of this when compared to the other >> colors >> I'm currently testing/trying for tricolor (BTW, it occured to me >> that it's >> stronger than Ivory black). So far it gives me nice reds (when >> combined >> with Schmincke Yellow Raw Ochre 656 - a mixture of PY42 and PY43) and >> violets (when combined with PB29 Ultramarine Blue). But I can't get a >> neutral black with this combination (but brown). What other pigment >> would >> you suggest for being able to get neutral black in tricolor printing? >> (Tricolor -> Cyan from Red, Magenta from Green and Yellow from Blue.) >> >> Thanks, >> Loris. >> >> >> 16 Eylül 2008, Salı, 7:12 pm tarihinde, Katharine Thayer yazmıÅ�: >> >>>> On Sep 15, 2008, at 11:33 PM, Loris Medici wrote: >>>> >>> >>> >>>> I have the same problem with the same pigment, Schmincke Ruby Red >>>> 351 >>>> PV19. BTW, it's a very very strong paint... Do you think that adding >>>> alcohol to the coating mix can help? >>>> >>> >>> >>> Sorry, this doesn't make sense to me, Loris. In the pigment lexicon >>> I understand, strength of pigment refers to its mixing power (or >>> layering power, in our case); a strong pigment needs to be used >>> sparingly in order to keep from overwhelming the other colors that it >>> is mixed or layered with. In other words, with a strong pigment, >>> you need to use much less pigment to get the same color intensity >>> that takes more pigment to achieve with a weaker pigment. (I'm not >>> the first person to notice this; I recently came across a paper where >>> Demachy was making the same point.) >>> >>> So if the PV 19 is a strong pigment (in my mind, PV 19 is, yes, >>> fairly strong as magentas go, but not as strong as lamp black or >>> pthalo) then it stands to reason that you should be using less of it >>> to balance the other colors than you might use of a different pigment >>> (PR 209, for example, requires a much larger amount of pigment to >>> achieve the same effect) and I would think that it would be a mix >>> that had more pigment in it that would require smoothing out with the >>> Everclear, not one with less pigment. Unless the purpose of the >>> Everclear is to smooth out a watery mix rather than a more heavily- >>> pigmented one. Or unless you're meaning something entirely different >>> by the term. glad you're back, by the way. >>> Katharine >>> >>> >> >> >> > >
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