U of S | Mailing List Archive | alt-photo-process-l | Re: Pigments for neutral color balance in gum: (Re: Fish Eyes again)

Re: Pigments for neutral color balance in gum: (Re: Fish Eyes again)

Glad to read that. Unfortunately I'm out of PB15:3, will try it as soon as
I purchase a new tube (tomorrow?). I have a nice gum portrait of my
beloved one which waits its final cyan layer (and maybe another final
final layer of black for Zones I - III) to be finished and admired (I


18 Eylül 2008, Perşembe, 10:08 pm tarihinde, Katharine Thayer yazmış:
> Yes, PB 15:3 is the blue that seems to work best with PV19, in my
> experience, if you wanted to stay with the PV19 and switch out the
> blue, instead of the other way around.  I guess I thought you were
> asking what magenta would be more likely to produce good neutrals
> with the PY42 and ultramarine.  Either way, I think you've got the
> right idea,
> Katharine
> On Sep 18, 2008, at 3:59 AM, Loris Medici wrote:
>> Thanks Katharine. Before dismissing PV19, I will first try using
>> PB15:3 as
>> the blue. Since the spacing between PY42/43 and PV19 is fine
>> (albeit in
>> the opposite direction of what McEvoy suggests; a yellow closer to the
>> magenta instead of a magenta closer to the yellow), and PB15:3 is
>> right
>> opposite to them. If that doesn't give me acceptable results, then
>> will
>> try with a brighter / colder yellow and a redder magenta. For the
>> moment I
>> like PY42/43 because if gives nice / contrasty gradation gradations
>> unlike
>> the brighter yellows (I simply can't see the gradations when
>> printing with
>> a bright / transparent yellow).
>> Regards,
>> Loris.
>> 17 Eylül 2008, �ar�amba, 5:38 pm tarihinde, Katharine
>> yazmı�:
>>> Hi Loris, sorry about taking off on a tangent.  I'm just guessing
>>> here, because I've not used that yellow (and would recommend using
>>> handprint's mixing triangle as an initial screen, as I suggest on my
>>> tricolor page) but I would definitely suggest a less blue magenta
>>> with your combination.   I've had good results with PR 175, a deep
>>> scarlet, with ultramarine and PY110, and Marek recently reported
>>> doing well with perylene maroon (PR179)-- which has a very similar
>>> hue to PR175-- with PY 150, which is also kind of an off-the-beaten-
>>> path yellow, and indanthrone, which like ultramarine, has more red in
>>> it than a true cyan.
>>>    It's a casual observation (I haven't done a careful study of this)
>>> that PV 19 is more likely to be implicated in those ugly purplish
>>> brown "neutrals" than other pigments;  I use it only with yellows and
>>> blues that stay pretty close to the pure primary hue.  Since the
>>> ultramarine is  redder than a true cyan,  you need a yellower red
>>> rather than a bluer red like PV19 to balance it,   and so forth.  The
>>> way I think of it is that in order to produce neutrals you need your
>>> three colors to be sort of equidistant on the color wheel, and if one
>>> is hue-shifted in one direction, then the others need to be shifted
>>> in the same direction.  Which is an implication of Bruce McEvoy's
>>> mixing triangle:  the triangle needs to enclose the center of the
>>> triangle in order to be able to produce a neutral black; if the
>>> triangle is way skewed from equilateral,  it may not contain the
>>> center (black) and  the three colors layered won't add to black.  If
>>> that doesn't make sense, then I need to find a way to write it
>>> better.
>>> Katharine