U of S | Mailing List Archive | alt-photo-process-l | RE: pyro and cyano

RE: pyro and cyano

	I don't believe that the peroxide makes the blues deeper...it just
gives you immediate feedback as to how deep they would eventually be after
the normal oxidation process.  I haven't noticed any bleaching between the
two but this is a good test to perform.  Make a print, tear it in two
pieces, and process side by side, one with peroxide, one without, all other
variables remaining the same.  Inspect when dry and after "normal" period of
time for oxidation without peroxide to occur.  

-----Original Message-----
From: Christina Z. Anderson [mailto:zphoto@montana.net] 
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 11:45 AM
To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
Subject: Re: pyro and cyano

I quit using the hydrogen peroxide because it was questioned to perhaps 
compromise the archivalness of the paper and it was unnecessary because the 
print would eventually get to that dark blue anyway, PLUS it seemed to 
bleach the print a bit, though this latter is only subjective to me and 
another person or so.

BUT this is my question--does the hydrogen peroxided print actually get 
darker blue than one that oxidizes over several days?  So if it gets darker,

there would be a benefit to it.  I have not tested this.

And who the hell cares about the archivalness of my prints--like I'm going 
to be famous one day????

Let me tell you, people complain about gum being fickle, I find personally 
in my practice cyanotype the most fickle process of all.  I can only chalk 
it up to the fact that humidity and coating plays a way greater part in that

process than people imagine.  I know Sam Wang tames it beautifully.

I also find that it is very unpredictable with my students in literally 
every class I have taught on alt.  Yesterday, one student used the same neg 
and curve and the print was completely overexposed and unusable.  And I know

he is not a student that would leave the lightbox on and go out for a cup of


But I am always combining cyanotype with another process, either gum or 
palladium, the latter which I just love so I actually use it frequently. I 
think I just need to really delve into Mike Ware's book.

Christina Z. Anderson
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "BOB KISS" <bobkiss@caribsurf.com>
To: <alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca>
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 8:06 AM
Subject: RE: pyro and cyano

> Does using the hydrogen peroxide cause any problems during
> processing or after?  I use it because it gives me the final depth of blue
> quickly so that I can judge if I have the correct exposure.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christina Z. Anderson [mailto:zphoto@montana.net]
> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 11:22 PM
> To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca
> Subject: Re: pyro and cyano
> Chris, when you say "six stops"
>> --- how many steps on the 21-step is that ?
> Hi Judy,
> 6 stops is 12 steps on a 21 step tablet (1 step=1/2 stop) or 18 steps on a
> 31 step tablet (3 steps= 1 stop).  This is why I don't talk steps because 
> it
> is confusing with whether one is using a 21 or a 31 or a 44, but a stop is

> a
> stop is a stop.
> Yes, cyano gets darker as it oxidizes.  I never use, and never recommend,
> hydrogen peroxide because eventually the print will turn that nice darker
> blue anyway.
> Chris
> (If I display ignorance,
>> please excuse.... But I live in a 21-step dimension, not a "stop"
>> dimension. In fact when I strayed into the wet darkroom last month on a
>> different mission, I couldn't even make the safelight go on !)
>> In any event, my rule of thumb for an average neg in simple cyano was 8 
>> or
>> 9 steps, tho I found many ways to modify that.  For instance, pages 34
>> thru 37 of Post-Factory #5 ("Managing the Blues") show differences from
>> light source (sun vs. UV bulbs), paper (Strathmore Artists v. Whatman 
>> Fine
>> Print, among others) proportions of parts A & B (as discussed on this 
>> list
>> by... Sandy?, Bob Shramm?, others ?) a while back; time on the paper
>> before exposure, delayed development, double coating (according to 
>> paper),
>> acid "prebath" ("tends to extend and deepen range very dramatically"),
>> etc. etc. etc.
>> That issue is dated "August 2000", so (BELIEVE ME !!!) I've forgotten the
>> details (the above is from a quick skim... but I'm not printing cyanotype
>> these days, and need that disk space ...ie, what's left in the brain ...
>> for current endeavors, so am TRYING to stay away from this topic... Tho,
>> since you insist.... my eye lights on mention that, to my surprise, I
>> discovered that "dry down" in cyano, goes on, not just for one day, but
>> several ... But you knew that ?
>> There are also 21-steps A through D2 of various ranges & why (p.37).  But
>> as in "devil get thee behind me," I change the subject: Another P-F (from
>> around then) shows a "Cyanodyke" -- what the photographer called her
>> vandyke brown prints over cyanotype. The print was very pretty, with nice
>> combined tones (tho in repro b&w only). As I recall, she didn't mention
>> bleaching, tho of course in the other way around -- cyano over vandyke
>> brown -- the silver gets bleached by the potassium ferricyanide in the
>> cyanotype. A short item, but if I locate it, I'll cite.
>> Judy
>>> not suitable for cyanotype as it is for other processes that have longer
>>> tonal ranges, unless one were to contract the tonal range of the pyro 
>>> neg
>>> to match cyano--or have subject matter that is tonally contracted 
>>> anyway.
>>> BUT, and this is my question:  does anyone know the maximum DR possible
>>> in a pyro neg?  I do not have a UV densitometer.  And, from memory 
>>> (which
>>> obviously doesn't serve me too well so please answer this, too) a film
>>> negative can actually record up to 13 stops of info, pt/pd about 10, BW
>>> paper about 7, and cyano about 6...you get my point perhaps.
>> [CUT.....]
>>> http://christinaanderson.visualserver.com/Text_page.cfm?pID=2448
>>> OHHH man do I need to get back to work, this is too fun posting all 
>>> these
>>> silly visuals, and hopefully someone will benefit except me :)
>>> Chris
>>> __________________
>>> Christina Z. Anderson
>>> http://christinaZanderson.com/
>>> __________________
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