RE: pt/pd stops and a neat web find
Chris, Pardon me, for not considering you a PT/PD printer. By the framing of the question I am now confused though. Are you calling NA2 a viable alternative but not someone that uses AFO/FO mix? I would call the use of the "NA2" contrast agent a relatively new thing, but not more important than AFO with ammonia based platinum. The scale of the developers is different as well. And what you get at the Formulary is different than what you get at B&S and certainly can be different from what one makes themselves. If you're going to quote scales, I think it might be wise to quote family trees of the platinum/palladium branches. You might also want to make time comparisons, as paper changes within a brand name could contribute to shifts in scale. Some old time formulas were just plain wrong too, so I don't know if looking at them without taking that into account will get you very far. The project with the Getty is collecting information on formulations and print quality, I don't know if anyone has submitted step scales with various formulations or not. Eric Eric Neilsen 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9 Dallas, TX 75226 214-827-8301 www.ericneilsenphotography.com SKYPE ejprinter -----Original Message----- From: Christina Z. Anderson [mailto:zphoto@montana.net] Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 4:44 PM To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca Subject: Re: pt/pd stops and a neat web find Eric, Correction, I actually am a pt/pd printer--one might hope so since I am teaching it at MOPA this summer :) I qualify that with that I am just not an exclusive/run with the big guys/pt/pd printer. The two processes I do are gum first and pt/pd (and cyano in combination with those two) second (in the darkroom, mordancage, chromo, hand coloring). In fact, I do a fair amount of pt/pd but I would never consider myself more of an expert in pt/pd than someone who does it all the time, as quite a few on this list fit that description without mentioning names. Hmmm...but all of them seem to be male....hmmmm...big GUYS... Again, my interest is only in the maximum stops possible with pt/pd, as a frame of reference for comparison with the other "shorter scale" processes. But I am talking about the NA2 or traditional formula that I won't pull out my book and quote amounts but what you get at B and S or Ph Form or mix up yourself according to old time recipes. I know I know here it goes again, like the comment of never using filter 0 and 1 I have to qualify everything but you hopefully will know what I am getting at. I use am citrate developer, for instance, but I am also interested in pot ox, pot ox heated, pot ox boiling, pure palladium, pure platinum, etc. etc. etc. Any comment that any of you post has been appreciated. My original question relates back to the issue of pyro negs and pt/pd and cyano. And speaking of BIG BIG guys, follows is a URL of one of our very own on this list who must not be self promoting because I had to find out about it from another listee who has a great knack for knowing how to surf the web strategically :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEmfUk-xjDo And he IS a big big guy :) --6'5" by some accounts? It's a really neat video even if I can't understand the language! Chris PS (BTW I am in contact with Dusan Stulik about a number of things gum related but also pt/pd/cyano related...Cigar Boy, for instance.) __________________ Christina Z. Anderson http://christinaZanderson.com/ __________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Neilsen To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 3:11 PM Subject: RE: pt/pd stops Marek, I am asking not just for general information, but also as Chris is not a platinum/palladium printer, she may not be aware of the variety of solution strengths that printers use. And while some of use one solution strength, others use an entirely different amount. When we use the words standard and traditional, they may be yours but they may not be mine. I am not giving you a hard time here, just clarifying. I have seen several different "traditional" concentrations quoted over the years. Some may not use a sodium tetracholoropalladate , but rather mix Sodium Chloride and Palladium Chloride. All these variations can add up to a lot when someone like Chris is asking what appears to be a basic question. Some talk in terms of molar solution strength and other in percentages. And you print with paper that is heat dried? Air dried, humidified, etc. I might mention to Chris to look into the project going on at the Getty Conservation Institute about alternative printing. You might be able to get more information there too. Eric Neilsen 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9 Dallas, TX 75226 214-827-8301 www.ericneilsenphotography.com SKYPE ejprinter From: Marek Matusz [mailto:marekmatusz@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 9:09 PM To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca Subject: RE: pt/pd stops OK Eric, Here is the technical details sodium tetracholoropalladate, standard concentration 0.1564 g Pd/cc solution Ferric oxalate 26%. Ferric oxalate is homemade via the nitric acid route. It is the nicest I ever tested and keeps forever. Exposure 5 minutes in a bank of BL bulbs, developed in a standard POTA solution (the solution is very old, just replenished). Marek Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 17:03:43 -0500 From: ejnphoto@sbcglobal.net Subject: RE: pt/pd stops To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca It would be worth more if you specified some of your chemical sources and solution concentrations. Your printing parameters could also be useful. Eric Eric Neilsen 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9 Dallas, TX 75226 214-827-8301 www.ericneilsenphotography.com SKYPE ejprinter From: Marek Matusz [mailto:marekmatusz@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 3:39 PM To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca Subject: RE: pt/pd stops For what it's worth, I just printed a 21 step tablet with some other calibrations stuff that I am working on in pure Pd, 13 steps visible on a 21 Stouffer guide. Marek Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 17:42:03 -0500 From: ejnphoto@sbcglobal.net Subject: RE: pt/pd stops To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca Chris, I am taking advantage of a refine edges on a rather large file to answer. I think that you'll find that there is no one coating solution/developer mixture that enough people use to be definitive. The Ziahype might just be a name, but the print out process is for real. There tonal scale is no less valid than a traditional FO. Also there is no set standard coating mixture or even a qualified solution concentration. These are real issues for anyone trying to map out the scale of PT/PD solutions. You best do your own and specify how, what , where, when , why, etc. and then you'll still have people that "know better" question your product. Look at Ware's appear on the issue of pt pd solution and yield. It is however written with the AFO, Ammonia based chemistry, much of the principles hold true for FO traditional chemistry through my experience. And as for printing with a 1 , 0, or 00 filter? All the time. I may not use it for the whole exposure, but you be sure that those filters see the enlarger often. Eric Eric Neilsen 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9 Dallas, TX 75226 214-827-8301 www.ericneilsenphotography.com SKYPE ejprinter From: Christina Z. Anderson [mailto:zphoto@montana.net] Sent: Monday, April 13, 2009 9:42 AM To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca Subject: Re: pt/pd stops Eric and others, Thanks for the answers. I am getting that one can print over 10 stops (wow). Eric, I am interested in just platinum and palladium and combinations thereof, not Ziatype or whatnot. I am interested in the utmost capability of a pt/pd print in terms of stops--to compare with bw, cyanotype, gum, etc. I have gone back and started reading Mike Ware's Cyanotype book again and find it is SO worth reading because each time I return to it I find more. More on this later with extending cyanotype's range. It is not a question of "my pt/pd steps are bigger than yours" :) nor does it relate to those printing gorgeous prints from midtone to black with no white... In the BW darkroom I did an interesting visual of printing a Stouffers with every filter in the Kodak filter pack to illustrate the tonal range/number of stops each filter produced. Very illustrative of the effect of filters! I'm tempted to post one more visual :) But no one would print with a 1 or 0 filter which, if memory serves correctly and I am too lazy to go get the step wedge prints, gave the longest tonal range. etc. etc. gotta go teach... Chris __________________ Christina Z. Anderson http://christinaZanderson.com/ __________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: EJ Photo To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 10:11 PM Subject: RE: pt/pd stops "Moisture at the time of exposure will also make a difference." Chris, the process is not static. I have certainly fill out/ used up all the steps on a standard stouffer tablet. I have not , as Mark, gone out on bought the extended version. There are of course many variations of PT/PD combinations and combinations of FO/AFO ( and others) so the question is are you looking to see what is the longest scale that can be achieved with any combination? Or specifically just a PT/PD combination? I don't normally tell people to shoot for a range bigger than 2.2, simply because getting longer scale is more difficult than some want to work. They can get lost in the scale and lose the trees. We are after all making pictures not printing grayscale patches for fun, The painters have covered that ground although I have seen some photographers doing much the same. Hey if it works.. Eric Eric Neilsen Photography 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9 Dallas, TX 75226 214-827-8301 www.ericneilsenphotography.com SKYPE ejprinter From: ender100 [mailto:ender100@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2009 12:00 AM To: alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca Subject: Re: pt/pd stops Chris, With pure Palladium, I am getting over 10 stops-I bought a 41 step tablet because of this! Moisture at the time of exposure will also make a difference. -- Best Wishes, Mark Nelson Precision Digital Negatives PDNPrint Forum @ Yahoo Groups Mark Nelson Photography On Apr 11, 2009, at 2:26:02 PM, "etienne garbaux" <photographeur@nerdshack.com> wrote: From:"etienne garbaux" <photographeur@nerdshack.com> Subject:Re: pt/pd stops Date:April 11, 2009 2:26:02 PM CDT To:alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca Chris wrote: >Can someone tell me the greatest amount of stops they have gotten >with pt/pd? Or put it in terms of logs or DR, if that's how you do it. I use the traditional formula, 100% Pt, no contrast agent, and you can clearly see all 31 steps of a 3.05 wedge on the very smooth, very white papers I favor. That is the exposure scale, of course -- the print Dmax is generally 1.5 or so. I usually make negatives with a DR of 3.1-3.2 for this process (which limits one's choice of films). Best regards, etienne Rediscover HotmailR: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry Check it out. Rediscover HotmailR: Now available on your iPhone or BlackBerry Check it out.
|