[alt-photo] Re: Klein Blue (ping Katherine...)

[Keith Gerling]

Thanks.  Pthalo just doesn't cut it.  In all variations I have tried, it
ends up being cyan.  Way too much green.

BTW, I was inspired by looking at the work of Omar Galliani
http://www.artsblog.it/post/3650/omar-galliani-a-lucca

On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 10:42 AM, Katharine Thayer <kthayer at pacifier.com>wrote:

> Well, I didn't research it heavily either,  but enough to gather that the
> makeup of the paint is  proprietary.  It does seem to be generally believed
> that the pigment is ultramarine, although I can't find an original source
> for that assertion, but that there's something about way the pigment is held
> in the binder (PVA apparently) that gives it its special quality.
>
> I agree, you're never going to get anything that intense, or even close to
> it, using ultramarine in gum printing.  Ultramarine isn't one of the
> stronger blue pigments and is relatively unsaturated as far as hue
> saturation goes.
>
> I'm actually somewhat dubious that this is ultramarine;  it looks more like
> pthalo than ultramarine to me, and if one can believe Wikipedia--big IF--
>  the hue angle of the color  is 223 and the RGB values are 0, 47, 167.
>  (Those values are listed as unsourced, which makes me a little nervous, but
> that's Wikipedia; it's all potluck.)  But IF those are the accurate values
> for the color, then ultramarine is an unlikely pigment, because ultramarines
> generally fall closer to 300 in hue angle.  The closest pigment to the hue
> angle 223 is PB 16, pthalo turquoise, but you know what?  Now that I think
> of it, I don't believe that 223 number that Wikipedia gives.  Because 223 is
> very much in the teal-turquoise range, and I wouldn't put Yves Klein Blue in
> that range at all.  So I'm inclined to discount those numbers.
>
> I'd go with pthalo, in as heavy a concentration as you can manage (the nice
> thing about pthalo is that it doesn't take much); to my eye that will get
> you the closest possible to that intensity of color.  But you also have the
> transparency thing going against you.  One description of Klein's paint
> describes it as industrial-looking and very opaque, like gouache.  So maybe
> use gouache rather than watercolor paint.  Just an idea, I don't know if
> it's a good one or not.  Hope any of that is useful,
> Katharine
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 29, 2010, at 7:20 AM, Keith Gerling wrote:
>
>  Painter (and photographer) Yves Klein laid claim to a particularly vibrant
>> blue that has come to be known as Klein Blue.
>> http://www.moma.org/collection/browse_results.php?object_id=80103
>>
>> I haven't researched this heavily, but it seems to be based on
>> Ultramarine.
>> When I try to make gumprints with Ultramarine they look terrible.  Dingy
>> and
>> weak.  Do any pigment experts out there have any advice on how one might
>> achieve a Klein Blue intensity in a Gum Bicrhromate print?
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