[alt-photo] Re: Inkjet Mall - Cone Color Inks for Epson 3800
Don Bryant
donsbryant at gmail.com
Sun May 23 01:05:50 GMT 2010
Marek,
>
The 3800 cartridges are sealed and pressurized. Is there a reliable way of
filling them?
I used to refill my 2200 carts and the inks I used were just as good as
original epson inks in terms of UV density. Yap 3800 cartridges are
expensive!
>
The Cone carts are easily refillable, and maintain pressure in the cart and
the ink lines. The initial cost for conversion using 100ml refillable carts
is slightly less than replacing all of the OEM ink carts when purchased from
a discounted vendor such as ATLEX.COM. I've decided to use the 100ml carts
since they can be pressurized much easier than with larger ink carts.
Don
-----Original Message-----
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Subject: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 154, Issue 1
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153, Issue 1 (Don Bryant)
2. Re: gum contrast... (Katharine Thayer)
3. Re: gum contrast... (Katharine Thayer)
4. Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153, Issue 1 (Marek Matusz)
5. Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153, Issue 1
(Paul Viapiano)
6. Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153, Issue 1 (BOB KISS)
7. Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153, Issue 1
(Christina Anderson)
8. Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153, Issue 1 (Mark Nelson)
9. Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153, Issue 1 (Mark Nelson)
10. Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153, Issue 1 (Marek Matusz)
11. Anyone doing print out palladium (AFO instead of FO) with the
usual Pd salt? (Na2PdCl4) (Loris Medici)
12. Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153, Issue 1
(Paul Viapiano)
13. solarplate (Weber, Scott B)
14. Re: solarplate (Clay Harmon Website)
15. Re: solarplate (Clay Harmon Website)
16. Platinum toning a Kallitype (Sterco)
17. Re: Platinum toning a Kallitype (Alberto Novo)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 08:11:00 -0400
From: Don Bryant <donsbryant at gmail.com>
To: <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153, Issue
1
Message-ID: <90DD39D3969D442CA2D3A615C86C3C20 at TravlinHP>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hello Marek,
>
Are there any benefits/differences for the citrate developer vs. traditional
potassium oxalate for palladium printing?
>
Sorry to take so long to answer your question (assuming it was directed to
me vs the general list) I receive the list posting in daily digest format so
I'm not too interactive, but the primary difference amongst different
developers is the final color palladium prints will have. Generally speaking
warm potassium oxalate creates much warmer toned prints than sodium citrate
and ammonium citrate shift to a warm-neutral tone. But the type of palladium
salt and ferric oxalate used also affects the color too.
Did that help?
Don Bryant
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 06:04:11 -0700
From: Katharine Thayer <kthayer at pacifier.com>
To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
<alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
Subject: [alt-photo] Re: gum contrast...
Message-ID: <BA399155-39DD-48EC-B966-984E7C9B4EFA at pacifier.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Don't worry about thinking out loud, nothing wrong with that. I was
doing something of the same when I was trying to remember that old
discussion which maybe only tangentially related, if at all.
Your question was what would be the difference between 1:1 gum/
dichromate with the dichromate dilution at 1x concentration and 2:1
gum/dichromate with the dichromate dilution at 2x concentration, at
the same exposure. There should be no difference, because the amount
of dichromate in the coating mix would be the same either way. The
statements on my website about different concentrations of dichromate
assume that the gum/pigment is kept constant as the dichromate
concentration is varied. Hope that's helpful,
Katharine
On May 17, 2010, at 9:42 PM, Paul Viapiano wrote:
> Katherine and Loris...
>
> Please don't go through any big deal about this. I'm coming to
> terms and re-examining the basic tenets here, and basically
> thinking out loud about all this in theory. Of course, in gum,
> practice is another thing.
>
> But all in all, just batting a few ideas around in my head. I
> apologize to all about my constant stream here...someday I'll learn
> to just sit back and enjoy this ;-)
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katharine Thayer"
> <kthayer at pacifier.com>
> To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list" <alt-
> photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
> Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 9:21 PM
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: gum contrast...
>
>
>
>> Paul, I am literally too tired to think tonight, but I have this
>> vague idea that there was a discussion about this on the list a
>> year or two ago, and that I may even have done some testing. I
>> did a quick search at the archives but didn't come up with what I
>> was looking for. It seems like it wasn't exactly this question
>> but was masquerading as this question, or something like that,
>> but I don't remember the discussion exactly. I'll look again in
>> the morning.
>> kt
>>
>>
>> On May 17, 2010, at 4:00 PM, Paul Viapiano wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Thanks for the comments on my last question. Sodium bisulfite
>>> helped restore brighter colors but yes, not overexposing in the
>>> first place is good advice.
>>>
>>> Riddle me this, sil vous plait: Knowing that decresing dichromate
>>> increases contrast, what would be the difference between a
>>> mixture of 2:1 gum/dichromate and a mixture of 1:1 where the
>>> dichromate is 1/2 strength, both at the same exposure time?
>>>
>>> Katherine mentions in her website that halving dichromate
>>> reduces speed by approx one stop. If you halved the dichromate,
>>> and increased the exposure by two, would you effectively get the
>>> same print as a 1:1? I'm trying to see relationships in theory
>>> here...
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance...Paul
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 06:24:51 -0700
From: Katharine Thayer <kthayer at pacifier.com>
To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
<alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
Subject: [alt-photo] Re: gum contrast...
Message-ID: <58CBB423-6F2F-43D6-93B8-1A131DA48806 at pacifier.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
On May 17, 2010, at 4:00 PM, Paul Viapiano wrote:
>
> Katherine mentions in her website that halving dichromate reduces
> speed by approx one stop. If you halved the dichromate, and
> increased the exposure by two, would you effectively get the same
> print as a 1:1? I'm trying to see relationships in theory here...
Sorry, I missed the second question. This is a different question
than the first one, the way I read it, even though your use of the
term 1:1 makes me wonder if you think you're restating the first
question.
In the first question, you're not changing the amount of dichromate
in the mix, so there would be no need to adjust exposure and the
contrast should be the same in either case. In the second question,
you are using half as much dichromate. If you made two prints, one
with 2:1 dichromate/gum at 1x exposure and the other with 1:1
dichromate/gum at 2x exposure (the dichromate solution the same in
either case) , then you should get a properly exposed print in either
case, but you wouldn't get the same print, because the reduced
dichromate would give you a more contrasty print.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 17:28:30 +0000
From: Marek Matusz <marekmatusz at hotmail.com>
To: alt photo <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153, Issue
1
Message-ID: <COL116-W5221DE35925F5425A11827BBE10 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
DOn,
Thanks for the post. If I can read you post correcty there might be some
differences in the final colour image, although I find that humidity has
perhaps a strongest influence.
Can the citrate developer be replenished like traditional POTA developr?
One advantage might be that citric acid is easily accessible and cheap.
Marek
> From: donsbryant at gmail.com
> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
> Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 08:11:00 -0400
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153, Issue 1
>
> Hello Marek,
>
> >
> Are there any benefits/differences for the citrate developer vs.
traditional
> potassium oxalate for palladium printing?
> >
>
> Sorry to take so long to answer your question (assuming it was directed to
> me vs the general list) I receive the list posting in daily digest format
so
> I'm not too interactive, but the primary difference amongst different
> developers is the final color palladium prints will have. Generally
speaking
> warm potassium oxalate creates much warmer toned prints than sodium
citrate
> and ammonium citrate shift to a warm-neutral tone. But the type of
palladium
> salt and ferric oxalate used also affects the color too.
>
> Did that help?
>
> Don Bryant
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:W
L:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 10:50:13 -0700
From: "Paul Viapiano" <viapiano at pacbell.net>
To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list"
<alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153, Issue
1
Message-ID: <B90EA1755EFF4D14ACB7F5CE4AC58AE4 at dell4600>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
FWIW, I started out with ammonium citrate developer (at room temp) for pure
palladium printing and loved the tones. I migrated to warm PO after a few
months and loved the warmth. However, whenever I show my earlier prints to
people (including pt/pd printers) they always say, "Now, what is this?" They
love the more neutral color. Maybe it's the perception of increased contrast
or a perceived solidity of a darker/neutral tone, I'm not sure.
Some feel that PO gives a smoother rendition of tonality, but I like the
variety of choice here and may return to AC for a series soon. I've never
tried SC although I do have some in the chem closet.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marek Matusz" <marekmatusz at hotmail.com>
To: "alt photo" <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 10:28 AM
Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153, Issue 1
>
> DOn,
>
> Thanks for the post. If I can read you post correcty there might be some
differences in the final colour image, although I find that humidity has
perhaps a strongest influence.
>
> Can the citrate developer be replenished like traditional POTA developr?
> One advantage might be that citric acid is easily accessible and cheap.
>
> Marek
>> From: donsbryant at gmail.com
>> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
>> Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 08:11:00 -0400
>> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153, Issue 1
>>
>> Hello Marek,
>>
>> >
>> Are there any benefits/differences for the citrate developer vs.
traditional
>> potassium oxalate for palladium printing?
>> >
>>
>> Sorry to take so long to answer your question (assuming it was directed
to
>> me vs the general list) I receive the list posting in daily digest format
so
>> I'm not too interactive, but the primary difference amongst different
>> developers is the final color palladium prints will have. Generally
speaking
>> warm potassium oxalate creates much warmer toned prints than sodium
citrate
>> and ammonium citrate shift to a warm-neutral tone. But the type of
palladium
>> salt and ferric oxalate used also affects the color too.
>>
>> Did that help?
>>
>> Don Bryant
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
>
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:W
L:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3
> _______________________________________________
> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 13:55:09 -0400
From: "BOB KISS" <bobkiss at caribsurf.com>
To: "'The alternative photographic processes mailing list'"
<alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153, Issue
1
Message-ID:
<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAIsdeRRYKtgRkfoAENz0NV7CgAAAEAAAACyWvKFq16lAm80EIs/F
s2YBAAAAAA==@caribsurf.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
DEAR MAREK,
I also found that, all other variables the same (paper, temp, neg,
etc., etc.), pt/pd prints developed in sodium citrate required more exposure
than prints developed in Pot Ox. And, at a dev temp of 100F (38C) I LOVE
the color of COT 320 in Pot Ox.
CHEERS!
BOB
-----Original Message-----
From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
[mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On Behalf Of
Marek Matusz
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 1:29 PM
To: alt photo
Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153, Issue 1
DOn,
Thanks for the post. If I can read you post correcty there might be some
differences in the final colour image, although I find that humidity has
perhaps a strongest influence.
Can the citrate developer be replenished like traditional POTA developr?
One advantage might be that citric acid is easily accessible and cheap.
Marek
> From: donsbryant at gmail.com
> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
> Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 08:11:00 -0400
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153, Issue 1
>
> Hello Marek,
>
> >
> Are there any benefits/differences for the citrate developer vs.
traditional
> potassium oxalate for palladium printing?
> >
>
> Sorry to take so long to answer your question (assuming it was directed to
> me vs the general list) I receive the list posting in daily digest format
so
> I'm not too interactive, but the primary difference amongst different
> developers is the final color palladium prints will have. Generally
speaking
> warm potassium oxalate creates much warmer toned prints than sodium
citrate
> and ammonium citrate shift to a warm-neutral tone. But the type of
palladium
> salt and ferric oxalate used also affects the color too.
>
> Did that help?
>
> Don Bryant
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:W
L:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3
_______________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 14:09:25 -0400
From: Christina Anderson <zphoto at montana.net>
To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
<alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153, Issue
1
Message-ID: <7C5ECA56-5786-475B-A1AF-90D41393496B at montana.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed;
delsp=yes
(testing iPhone...)
I used to always use am citrate until experiencing pot ox and much
prefer it. I tested am citrate heated and it too was warmer, tho not
as warm as pot ox, so heat is another factor to consider.
Chris
Sent from my iPhone
On May 18, 2010, at 1:55 PM, "BOB KISS" <bobkiss at caribsurf.com> wrote:
> DEAR MAREK,
> I also found that, all other variables the same (paper, temp, neg,
> etc., etc.), pt/pd prints developed in sodium citrate required more
> exposure
> than prints developed in Pot Ox. And, at a dev temp of 100F (38C) I
> LOVE
> the color of COT 320 in Pot Ox.
> CHEERS!
> BOB
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On
> Behalf Of
> Marek Matusz
> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 1:29 PM
> To: alt photo
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153,
> Issue 1
>
>
> DOn,
>
> Thanks for the post. If I can read you post correcty there might be
> some
> differences in the final colour image, although I find that humidity
> has
> perhaps a strongest influence.
>
> Can the citrate developer be replenished like traditional POTA
> developr?
> One advantage might be that citric acid is easily accessible and
> cheap.
>
> Marek
>> From: donsbryant at gmail.com
>> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
>> Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 08:11:00 -0400
>> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153,
>> Issue 1
>>
>> Hello Marek,
>>
>>>
>> Are there any benefits/differences for the citrate developer vs.
> traditional
>> potassium oxalate for palladium printing?
>>>
>>
>> Sorry to take so long to answer your question (assuming it was
>> directed to
>> me vs the general list) I receive the list posting in daily digest
>> format
> so
>> I'm not too interactive, but the primary difference amongst different
>> developers is the final color palladium prints will have. Generally
> speaking
>> warm potassium oxalate creates much warmer toned prints than sodium
> citrate
>> and ammonium citrate shift to a warm-neutral tone. But the type of
> palladium
>> salt and ferric oxalate used also affects the color too.
>>
>> Did that help?
>>
>> Don Bryant
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your
> inbox.
>
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:W
> L:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3
> _______________________________________________
> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> signature
> database 5125 (20100518) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 11:33:14 -0700
From: Mark Nelson <ender100 at aol.com>
To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
<alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153, Issue
1
Message-ID: <1B9E72C1-32B5-49AB-87F7-4C3BBBB1DBC4 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed;
delsp=yes
Congratulations Chris! Have you gotten the Gum Stain Test AP for your
iPhone yet?
Mark Nelson
www.PrecisionDigitalNegatives.com
PDNPRint Forum @ Yahoo Groups
www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com
sent from my iPhonetypeDeviceThingy
On May 18, 2010, at 11:09 AM, Christina Anderson <zphoto at montana.net>
wrote:
> (testing iPhone...)
> I used to always use am citrate until experiencing pot ox and much
> prefer it. I tested am citrate heated and it too was warmer, tho not
> as warm as pot ox, so heat is another factor to consider.
> Chris
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 18, 2010, at 1:55 PM, "BOB KISS" <bobkiss at caribsurf.com> wrote:
>
>> DEAR MAREK,
>> I also found that, all other variables the same (paper, temp, neg,
>> etc., etc.), pt/pd prints developed in sodium citrate required more
>> exposure
>> than prints developed in Pot Ox. And, at a dev temp of 100F (38C)
>> I LOVE
>> the color of COT 320 in Pot Ox.
>> CHEERS!
>> BOB
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
>> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On
>> Behalf Of
>> Marek Matusz
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 1:29 PM
>> To: alt photo
>> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153,
>> Issue 1
>>
>>
>> DOn,
>>
>> Thanks for the post. If I can read you post correcty there might be
>> some
>> differences in the final colour image, although I find that
>> humidity has
>> perhaps a strongest influence.
>>
>> Can the citrate developer be replenished like traditional POTA
>> developr?
>> One advantage might be that citric acid is easily accessible and
>> cheap.
>>
>> Marek
>>> From: donsbryant at gmail.com
>>> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
>>> Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 08:11:00 -0400
>>> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153,
>>> Issue 1
>>>
>>> Hello Marek,
>>>
>>>>
>>> Are there any benefits/differences for the citrate developer vs.
>> traditional
>>> potassium oxalate for palladium printing?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry to take so long to answer your question (assuming it was
>>> directed to
>>> me vs the general list) I receive the list posting in daily digest
>>> format
>> so
>>> I'm not too interactive, but the primary difference amongst
>>> different
>>> developers is the final color palladium prints will have. Generally
>> speaking
>>> warm potassium oxalate creates much warmer toned prints than sodium
>> citrate
>>> and ammonium citrate shift to a warm-neutral tone. But the type of
>> palladium
>>> salt and ferric oxalate used also affects the color too.
>>>
>>> Did that help?
>>>
>>> Don Bryant
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your
>> inbox.
>>
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:W
>> L:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3
>> _______________________________________________
>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>> signature
>> database 5125 (20100518) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
> _______________________________________________
> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 11:38:43 -0700
From: Mark Nelson <ender100 at aol.com>
To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
<alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153, Issue
1
Message-ID: <34978600-9D80-42C9-BC21-C0C7083A04DE at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed;
delsp=yes
Chris,
I use Am Citrate with Pd/Na2 when I want cooler tone prints- at around
90 F.
For most work I use Pot Ox at 120 F.
You are right, higher temp with either will warm the color.
I've seen people use pot ox at near boiling temp, but I don't like
being around it at that temp.
Mark Nelson
www.PrecisionDigitalNegatives.com
PDNPRint Forum @ Yahoo Groups
www.MarkINelsonPhoto.com
sent from my iPhonetypeDeviceThingy
On May 18, 2010, at 11:09 AM, Christina Anderson <zphoto at montana.net>
wrote:
> (testing iPhone...)
> I used to always use am citrate until experiencing pot ox and much
> prefer it. I tested am citrate heated and it too was warmer, tho not
> as warm as pot ox, so heat is another factor to consider.
> Chris
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 18, 2010, at 1:55 PM, "BOB KISS" <bobkiss at caribsurf.com> wrote:
>
>> DEAR MAREK,
>> I also found that, all other variables the same (paper, temp, neg,
>> etc., etc.), pt/pd prints developed in sodium citrate required more
>> exposure
>> than prints developed in Pot Ox. And, at a dev temp of 100F (38C)
>> I LOVE
>> the color of COT 320 in Pot Ox.
>> CHEERS!
>> BOB
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
>> [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On
>> Behalf Of
>> Marek Matusz
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 1:29 PM
>> To: alt photo
>> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153,
>> Issue 1
>>
>>
>> DOn,
>>
>> Thanks for the post. If I can read you post correcty there might be
>> some
>> differences in the final colour image, although I find that
>> humidity has
>> perhaps a strongest influence.
>>
>> Can the citrate developer be replenished like traditional POTA
>> developr?
>> One advantage might be that citric acid is easily accessible and
>> cheap.
>>
>> Marek
>>> From: donsbryant at gmail.com
>>> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
>>> Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 08:11:00 -0400
>>> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153,
>>> Issue 1
>>>
>>> Hello Marek,
>>>
>>>>
>>> Are there any benefits/differences for the citrate developer vs.
>> traditional
>>> potassium oxalate for palladium printing?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry to take so long to answer your question (assuming it was
>>> directed to
>>> me vs the general list) I receive the list posting in daily digest
>>> format
>> so
>>> I'm not too interactive, but the primary difference amongst
>>> different
>>> developers is the final color palladium prints will have. Generally
>> speaking
>>> warm potassium oxalate creates much warmer toned prints than sodium
>> citrate
>>> and ammonium citrate shift to a warm-neutral tone. But the type of
>> palladium
>>> salt and ferric oxalate used also affects the color too.
>>>
>>> Did that help?
>>>
>>> Don Bryant
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your
>> inbox.
>>
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:W
>> L:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3
>> _______________________________________________
>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>> signature
>> database 5125 (20100518) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
> _______________________________________________
> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 18:39:25 +0000
From: Marek Matusz <marekmatusz at hotmail.com>
To: alt photo <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153, Issue
1
Message-ID: <COL116-W14476454CB42BCF23BEF9ABBE10 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Congratulation Chris,
there is no need to print gum anymore, I am sure there is an app for it
Marek
> From: zphoto at montana.net
> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
> Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 14:09:25 -0400
> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153, Issue 1
>
> (testing iPhone...)
> I used to always use am citrate until experiencing pot ox and much
> prefer it. I tested am citrate heated and it too was warmer, tho not
> as warm as pot ox, so heat is another factor to consider.
> Chris
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 18, 2010, at 1:55 PM, "BOB KISS" <bobkiss at caribsurf.com> wrote:
>
> > DEAR MAREK,
> > I also found that, all other variables the same (paper, temp, neg,
> > etc., etc.), pt/pd prints developed in sodium citrate required more
> > exposure
> > than prints developed in Pot Ox. And, at a dev temp of 100F (38C) I
> > LOVE
> > the color of COT 320 in Pot Ox.
> > CHEERS!
> > BOB
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
> > [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On
> > Behalf Of
> > Marek Matusz
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 1:29 PM
> > To: alt photo
> > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153,
> > Issue 1
> >
> >
> > DOn,
> >
> > Thanks for the post. If I can read you post correcty there might be
> > some
> > differences in the final colour image, although I find that humidity
> > has
> > perhaps a strongest influence.
> >
> > Can the citrate developer be replenished like traditional POTA
> > developr?
> > One advantage might be that citric acid is easily accessible and
> > cheap.
> >
> > Marek
> >> From: donsbryant at gmail.com
> >> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
> >> Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 08:11:00 -0400
> >> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153,
> >> Issue 1
> >>
> >> Hello Marek,
> >>
> >>>
> >> Are there any benefits/differences for the citrate developer vs.
> > traditional
> >> potassium oxalate for palladium printing?
> >>>
> >>
> >> Sorry to take so long to answer your question (assuming it was
> >> directed to
> >> me vs the general list) I receive the list posting in daily digest
> >> format
> > so
> >> I'm not too interactive, but the primary difference amongst different
> >> developers is the final color palladium prints will have. Generally
> > speaking
> >> warm potassium oxalate creates much warmer toned prints than sodium
> > citrate
> >> and ammonium citrate shift to a warm-neutral tone. But the type of
> > palladium
> >> salt and ferric oxalate used also affects the color too.
> >>
> >> Did that help?
> >>
> >> Don Bryant
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your
> > inbox.
> >
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:W
> > L:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3
> > _______________________________________________
> > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
> >
> > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
> > signature
> > database 5125 (20100518) __________
> >
> > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
> >
> > http://www.eset.com
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
> _______________________________________________
> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:W
L:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 22:36:47 +0300
From: Loris Medici <mail at loris.medici.name>
To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
<alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
Subject: [alt-photo] Anyone doing print out palladium (AFO instead of
FO) with the usual Pd salt? (Na2PdCl4)
Message-ID:
<AANLkTinNCbmeUTAHJ1nAcQB8ZLrI2MDX4wpqt_Dge76s at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Is there anyone doing print out palladium with the usual Pd salt?
(That's: Na2PdCl4 + AFO)
I'd like to hear about your experience with this method...
TIA & regards,
Loris.
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 12:36:51 -0700
From: "Paul Viapiano" <viapiano at pacbell.net>
To: "The alternative photographic processes mailing list"
<alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153, Issue
1
Message-ID: <34A3EFBB069B413A8B481CAA5F5AF052 at dell4600>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Is there an app that sends a shock to your pants every time you even think
about making a gum print?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marek Matusz" <marekmatusz at hotmail.com>
To: "alt photo" <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 11:39 AM
Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153, Issue 1
>
> Congratulation Chris,
>
> there is no need to print gum anymore, I am sure there is an app for it
>
> Marek
>
>> From: zphoto at montana.net
>> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
>> Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 14:09:25 -0400
>> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153, Issue 1
>>
>> (testing iPhone...)
>> I used to always use am citrate until experiencing pot ox and much
>> prefer it. I tested am citrate heated and it too was warmer, tho not
>> as warm as pot ox, so heat is another factor to consider.
>> Chris
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On May 18, 2010, at 1:55 PM, "BOB KISS" <bobkiss at caribsurf.com> wrote:
>>
>> > DEAR MAREK,
>> > I also found that, all other variables the same (paper, temp, neg,
>> > etc., etc.), pt/pd prints developed in sodium citrate required more
>> > exposure
>> > than prints developed in Pot Ox. And, at a dev temp of 100F (38C) I
>> > LOVE
>> > the color of COT 320 in Pot Ox.
>> > CHEERS!
>> > BOB
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org
>> > [mailto:alt-photo-process-list-bounces at lists.altphotolist.org] On
>> > Behalf Of
>> > Marek Matusz
>> > Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 1:29 PM
>> > To: alt photo
>> > Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153,
>> > Issue 1
>> >
>> >
>> > DOn,
>> >
>> > Thanks for the post. If I can read you post correcty there might be
>> > some
>> > differences in the final colour image, although I find that humidity
>> > has
>> > perhaps a strongest influence.
>> >
>> > Can the citrate developer be replenished like traditional POTA
>> > developr?
>> > One advantage might be that citric acid is easily accessible and
>> > cheap.
>> >
>> > Marek
>> >> From: donsbryant at gmail.com
>> >> To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
>> >> Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 08:11:00 -0400
>> >> Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Alt-photo-process-list Digest, Vol 153,
>> >> Issue 1
>> >>
>> >> Hello Marek,
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >> Are there any benefits/differences for the citrate developer vs.
>> > traditional
>> >> potassium oxalate for palladium printing?
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> Sorry to take so long to answer your question (assuming it was
>> >> directed to
>> >> me vs the general list) I receive the list posting in daily digest
>> >> format
>> > so
>> >> I'm not too interactive, but the primary difference amongst different
>> >> developers is the final color palladium prints will have. Generally
>> > speaking
>> >> warm potassium oxalate creates much warmer toned prints than sodium
>> > citrate
>> >> and ammonium citrate shift to a warm-neutral tone. But the type of
>> > palladium
>> >> salt and ferric oxalate used also affects the color too.
>> >>
>> >> Did that help?
>> >>
>> >> Don Bryant
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
>> > The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your
>> > inbox.
>> >
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:W
>> > L:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>> >
>> > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>> > signature
>> > database 5125 (20100518) __________
>> >
>> > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>> >
>> > http://www.eset.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>> _______________________________________________
>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox.
>
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:W
L:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_3
> _______________________________________________
> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 22:36:03 +0000
From: "Weber, Scott B" <sweber at mail.barry.edu>
To: "'alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org'"
<alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
Subject: [alt-photo] solarplate
Message-ID:
<F5FB8C395E32BA4DBA32F1170109353F1B79CC05 at EX2010-01.barrynet.barry.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Just got my press and want to start making solar plates using digital
positives. Any recommended reading?
Scott B. Weber
Associate Professor of Photography
Department of Fine Arts
Barry University
Miami Shores, Florida
305 899 4922
sweber at mail.barry.edu
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 19:18:24 -0500
From: Clay Harmon Website <clayh at clayharmon.com>
To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
<alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
Subject: [alt-photo] Re: solarplate
Message-ID: <DA83219B-67B0-4EB4-9DC1-97E7147BC5FB at clayharmon.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Here are some web links to some information I found useful while I was
getting my process calibrated. My write-up is not done yet :^)
John Lybrook has some very good tips about the process:
http://intaglioeditions.com/procedures/polymer_photogravure.html
Susan Daly Voss has a series of blog entries outlining her experience here:
http://susanvossgravures.blogspot.com/
There are also some useful posts here in the archives.
The quick summary of what i have learned is :
1) get a point source light or use one that is highly collimated (sun will
work). A fluorescent UV light box and contact frame are very problematic for
getting a good screen exposure because light 'leakage' around the dots from
omni-directional light can result in large lighter spots and areas. This
problem is ubiquitous and ultimately maddening and expensive. I use a plate
maker with a vacuum frame and don't have the problem. I have successfully
used the sun (the ultimate point source) and a split-back printing frames
during workshops.
2) Newton rings caused by contact between shiny plate and the inkjet
positives I use are equally maddening. I get around them by spraying the
inked side of the positive with a light dusting of Krylon Clear Glossy
Acrylic to give it some tooth.
3) Use step tablets to establish your screen exposure time before you move
on to trying to calibrate your positives.
4) The ratio between the screen and image exposure seems to be more critical
than absolute time. During the workshops where I have had to use the sun, I
just keep the ratio of these times roughly consistent with what I have
established with my exposure unit.
5) Practice inking and wiping. Practice inking and wiping. Practice inking
and wiping. Practice inking and wiping. Calibration of the process when your
technique is still wobbly can be frustrating.
6) Get a good etching ink and basic paper and stick to that while you work
on your chops.
7) Soaking time is paper dependent, but Rives BFK for about 45 minutes and
then blotted and put in a wet pack for the printing session seems to work
pretty well for me. YMMV, of course.
8) Plates can change from batch to batch and as they age. Test strips are
not a bad idea.
I have a few of the existing published books on the polymer process and
frankly found them to be a little lacking. I think getting the Copperplate
Photogravure:Demystifying the Process is a better bet for a long term
reference.
Hope this helps!
Clay
On May 18, 2010, at 5:36 PM, Weber, Scott B wrote:
> Just got my press and want to start making solar plates using digital
positives. Any recommended reading?
>
> Scott B. Weber
> Associate Professor of Photography
> Department of Fine Arts
> Barry University
> Miami Shores, Florida
> 305 899 4922
> sweber at mail.barry.edu
>
> _______________________________________________
> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Tue, 18 May 2010 19:28:35 -0500
From: Clay Harmon Website <clayh at clayharmon.com>
To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
<alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
Subject: [alt-photo] Re: solarplate
Message-ID: <D428D87E-76B3-4AF0-B74E-8B2BA9B5D024 at clayharmon.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Oh, a few more things:
9) These plates are pretty light sensitive. For reference, my palladium
exposure time on my unit is 250 units and my screen/image exposure times are
100/125 on the same unit. Don't take a bunch of plates out of the bag and
leave them on the counter while you cut them.
10) Speaking of cutting. Get a deburring tool and use it. My first wash out
experiences were done in trays of pinkish water colored by my bleeding
finger tips.
11) it is hard to put too much pressure on your press.
On May 18, 2010, at 7:18 PM, Clay Harmon Website wrote:
> Here are some web links to some information I found useful while I was
getting my process calibrated. My write-up is not done yet :^)
>
> John Lybrook has some very good tips about the process:
>
> http://intaglioeditions.com/procedures/polymer_photogravure.html
>
> Susan Daly Voss has a series of blog entries outlining her experience
here:
>
> http://susanvossgravures.blogspot.com/
>
> There are also some useful posts here in the archives.
>
> The quick summary of what i have learned is :
>
> 1) get a point source light or use one that is highly collimated (sun will
work). A fluorescent UV light box and contact frame are very problematic for
getting a good screen exposure because light 'leakage' around the dots from
omni-directional light can result in large lighter spots and areas. This
problem is ubiquitous and ultimately maddening and expensive. I use a plate
maker with a vacuum frame and don't have the problem. I have successfully
used the sun (the ultimate point source) and a split-back printing frames
during workshops.
>
> 2) Newton rings caused by contact between shiny plate and the inkjet
positives I use are equally maddening. I get around them by spraying the
inked side of the positive with a light dusting of Krylon Clear Glossy
Acrylic to give it some tooth.
>
> 3) Use step tablets to establish your screen exposure time before you move
on to trying to calibrate your positives.
>
> 4) The ratio between the screen and image exposure seems to be more
critical than absolute time. During the workshops where I have had to use
the sun, I just keep the ratio of these times roughly consistent with what I
have established with my exposure unit.
>
> 5) Practice inking and wiping. Practice inking and wiping. Practice inking
and wiping. Practice inking and wiping. Calibration of the process when your
technique is still wobbly can be frustrating.
>
> 6) Get a good etching ink and basic paper and stick to that while you work
on your chops.
>
> 7) Soaking time is paper dependent, but Rives BFK for about 45 minutes and
then blotted and put in a wet pack for the printing session seems to work
pretty well for me. YMMV, of course.
>
> 8) Plates can change from batch to batch and as they age. Test strips are
not a bad idea.
>
>
> I have a few of the existing published books on the polymer process and
frankly found them to be a little lacking. I think getting the Copperplate
Photogravure:Demystifying the Process is a better bet for a long term
reference.
>
> Hope this helps!
>
> Clay
>
> On May 18, 2010, at 5:36 PM, Weber, Scott B wrote:
>
>> Just got my press and want to start making solar plates using digital
positives. Any recommended reading?
>>
>> Scott B. Weber
>> Associate Professor of Photography
>> Department of Fine Arts
>> Barry University
>> Miami Shores, Florida
>> 305 899 4922
>> sweber at mail.barry.edu
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>
> _______________________________________________
> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 03:54:46 +0200
From: Sterco <sterco at ridni.com>
To: alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org
Subject: [alt-photo] Platinum toning a Kallitype
Message-ID: <8FFA7A03-9D96-4A26-8B1B-BD6367D5B3D5 at ridni.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi! My name is Matteo Indri
I've been "lurking in the digital dark" of this list for a while now but
never partecipated in the discussion because being new in the alternative
processes' scene I unfortunately don't have much to contribute yet. Also,
oddly and amazingly enough, every time I had a question, someone else would
ask it to the list and get extremely knowledgeable answers that would solve
my problem.
Thanks a lot to all for the support you give to everyone interested in this
beautiful art form and for the real life experiences and warmth that exudes
from your messages.
Now I finally have a question for you, hoping it was not asked/answered
before:
I read you can make a Kallitype platinum toner in a few different ways: each
recipe I've found though calls for potassium chloroplatinite... I personally
bought Potassium tethrachloroplatinate: can I just substitute it for the
"ite", or are they quite different compounds? If you use the
chloroplatinate, which one is your favourite recipe?
Thanks so much and sorry for the lenghty email,
Matteo
------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 08:13:15 +0200
From: "Alberto Novo" <alt.list at albertonovo.it>
To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list
<alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
Subject: [alt-photo] Re: Platinum toning a Kallitype
Message-ID: <20100519061315.11190.qmail at webmaildh5.aruba.it>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"
Matteo,
> I read you can make a Kallitype platinum toner in a few different ways:
each recipe I've found though calls for potassium chloroplatinite... I
personally bought Potassium tethrachloroplatinate: can I just substitute it
for the "ite", or are they quite different compounds?
The chemistry of the toner is:
2 Ag + K2PtCl4 --> 2 AgCl + Pt + 2 KCl (chloroplatinITE)
4 Ag + K2PtCl6 --> 4 AgCl + Pt + 2 KCl (chloroplatinATE)
Hence, if you tone with Pt(IV) you have an overall loss of density (that is,
also in the shadows) of about 1 stop that you cannot counteract
overexposing.
Alberto
www.grupponamias.com
www.alternativephotography.com/articles/art102.html
------------------------------
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