[alt-photo] Re: The Illusive Black Cyanotype - Any Insight?

Tue Sep 20 22:06:04 GMT 2011

Hi Loris,

This particular experiment with the gallic acid toning was done on dry
prints but only because I'm waiting on a replacement contact printing frame
to arrive so I couldn't make fresh prints. I do suspect that the results
will be different to some degree with fresh prints that haven't had the time
to age or oxidize.

I'm very interested in trying the lead acetate toning. The recipe I want to
try calls for a 5% w/v lead acetate solution (cited in Mike Ware's book). I
need to figure out where I can get the lead from. I haven't begun researched
this yet so if you have any ideas of where I can get lead acetate from it
would be helpful.

I have cleared using citric acid in past experiments and I'll give that a go
in my next round of experiments.

Thanks for your insight!

-Francesco

On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 2:54 PM, Loris Medici <mail at loris.medici.name>wrote:

> Francesco,
>
> - Are you toning fresh prints right after finishing rinse/development
> step or do you tone completely finished (dry - oxidized - aged)
> prints? (Maybe fresh prints could prove better; I was never waiting
> the prints to dry / oxidize completely and age before toning... BTW,
> please note that I never tried gallic acid toning, only tannic acid
> and lead acetate. In any case, you "may" experience a little better
> contrast / more open highlights that way; try and see if that works
> better for you. ???)
> - Do you clear(!) your cyanotypes before toning? (A weak ...say, 1
> heaping dessert spoon per 2000ml... citric acid solution after
> development and peroxide, but before the last rinse works pretty well
> in clearing the print from unwanted iron residue = better contrast +
> cleaner highlights. Plus, IME, citric acid clearing gives a greener
> blue, and more green "may" give you results which are a little more
> neutral. ???)
>
> Regards,
> Loris.
>
>
> 2011/9/20 Francesco Fragomeni <fdfragomeni at gmail.com>:
>  > Hi Gordon,
> >
> > The 3 drops Nitric Acid recipe you've cited is the one I used last night.
> > This morning I took another look at the prints and found that they
> changed
> > to more of a cool grey but still retained a bit of the purple hue (but
> much
> > more pleasing in color then the purple cast that they had right when I
> did
> > the process). I also noticed that the gallic acid reduces contrast
> > significantly and flattens out the image very noticeably. I think I may
> > experiment some more with this to see if Ican improve the results. I
> think
> > if you take the reduction in contrast into consideration when making a
> > negative and consequently the initial cyanotype print then there might be
> a
> > way achieve deeper blacks and proper contrast. Some testing will be
> needed
> > to figure this out.
> >
> > I haven't tried the ferrogallic process you mention but I'll look into it
> > and see if I can get all of the chemistry for it.
> >
> > I'll continue to experiment with the Nitric Acid recipe and I plan to do
> > some experiments with the coffee toning recipe I just got to see if that
> > does what I want without staining the paper base and bringing down the
> > highlights.
> >
> > Anyway, thanks for the ideas.
> >
> > -Francesco
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 9:05 PM, Gordon J. Holtslander <gjh at shaw.ca>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Have you tried this:
> >>
> >> To convert Cyano to black tones:
> >> Place print in solution of 3 drops Nitric Acid added to 1 litre water
> for
> >> two minutes transfer to bath of 14g Sodium Carbonate + 160cc water -
> leave
> >> till image disappears and then reappears with an orange tone transfer
> print
> >> to third solution of 14g Gallic Acid + 160cc water - black tones will
> appear
> >> wash 30 min.
> >>
> >> perhaps the ferrogallic process would work;
> >> (from Photographic Facts and Formulas 1940)
> >>
> >> ferric chloride         50g
> >> ferric suplphate (basic)        25g
> >> tartaric acid                   45g
> >> water                           500 ml
> >>
> >> Dissolve and add
> >>
> >> gelatin                         25g
> >> water                           250cc
> >>
> >> soak gelatin for 30 minutes and dissolve
> >>
> >> Development details are not given though
> >>
> >> Gord
> >>
> >>
> >> On 9/19/2011 9:14 PM, Francesco Fragomeni wrote:
> >>
> >>>  I received a coffee toning recipe a few minutes ago that I haven't
> tried
> >>> before. Examples look pleasing. I'll be trying this soon. Anyone have
> >>> success with this?
> >>>
> >>> -Francesco
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 7:32 PM, Francesco Fragomeni
> >>> <fdfragomeni at gmail.com>wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>>
> >>>> I've been working for some time to achieve a black cyanotype but to no
> >>>> avail. I mean true black and grays, not the purples, eggplants, and
> other
> >>>> hues that can be achieved rather easily. I am 100% sure that it is
> >>>> possible
> >>>> because I have seen examples in private collections. I have also seen
> a
> >>>> few
> >>>> rare examples (unsubstantiated) on the web but I've been unable to
> >>>> initiate
> >>>> conversations with anyone who has made one successfully. I've tried
> most
> >>>> of
> >>>> the toning recipes and none of these achieve anything close to what
> I'm
> >>>> looking for plus they have a tendency to stain the paper base. Tonight
> I
> >>>> tried the nitric acid (nasty stuff so be careful)/ sodium carbonate/
> >>>> gallic
> >>>> acid recipe which is purportedly capable of rendering a black
> cyanotype.
> >>>> This recipe produced more of a dark grayish purple in the shadows and
> a
> >>>> much
> >>>> more obvious purple cast to the highlights. Now this may be worth
> >>>> experimenting with again because my tests were based on re-soaking
> >>>> already
> >>>> dry prints rather then making fresh ones which could possibly make a
> >>>> difference (I couldn't make new prints because I'm waiting on a
> printing
> >>>> frame to arrive to replace my unusable one). Can anyone here offer any
> >>>> insight into how to achieve the illusive black cyanotype?? It would be
> so
> >>>> unbelievably appreciated. Thank you!
> >>>>
> >>>> -Francesco Fragomeni
> >>>>
> >>>> ______________________________**_________________
> >>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/**listinfo<
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Gordon J. Holtslander
> >> gjh at shaw.ca
> >> ______________________________**_________________
> >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/**listinfo<
> http://altphotolist.org/listinfo>
>  >>
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