[alt-photo] Re: The Illusive Black Cyanotype - Any Insight?
Gordon Holtslander
gjh at shaw.ca
Wed Sep 21 20:10:05 GMT 2011
Ryuji Suzuki uses salicylic acid in some of his developers to sequester iron.
http://www.digitaltruth.com/data/ds-10.php
I wonder if a salicylic acid could be used to clear iron in toning cyanotype?
Salicylic acid is a phenolic acid like tannic acid. It may tone cyanotypes as well.
Gord
----- Original Message -----
From: Francesco Fragomeni <fdfragomeni at gmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 4:07 pm
Subject: [alt-photo] Re: The Illusive Black Cyanotype - Any Insight?
To: The alternative photographic processes mailing list <alt-photo-process-list at lists.altphotolist.org>
> In regard to the gallic acid toning procedure, can anyone
> confirm what the
> nitric acid does? My assumption is that it is a clearing agent
> intended to
> aggressively neutralize or remove excess iron residue before
> bleaching in
> sodium carbonate and then toning in the gallic acid. Can anyone
> confirmthis?
>
> -Francesco
>
> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 3:06 PM, Francesco Fragomeni
> <fdfragomeni at gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > Hi Loris,
> >
> > This particular experiment with the gallic acid toning was
> done on dry
> > prints but only because I'm waiting on a replacement contact
> printing frame
> > to arrive so I couldn't make fresh prints. I do suspect that
> the results
> > will be different to some degree with fresh prints that
> haven't had the time
> > to age or oxidize.
> >
> > I'm very interested in trying the lead acetate toning. The
> recipe I want to
> > try calls for a 5% w/v lead acetate solution (cited in Mike
> Ware's book). I
> > need to figure out where I can get the lead from. I haven't
> begun researched
> > this yet so if you have any ideas of where I can get lead
> acetate from it
> > would be helpful.
> >
> > I have cleared using citric acid in past experiments and I'll
> give that a
> > go in my next round of experiments.
> >
> > Thanks for your insight!
> >
> > -Francesco
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 2:54 PM, Loris Medici
> <mail at loris.medici.name>wrote:>
> >> Francesco,
> >>
> >> - Are you toning fresh prints right after finishing
> rinse/development>> step or do you tone completely finished (dry
> - oxidized - aged)
> >> prints? (Maybe fresh prints could prove better; I was never waiting
> >> the prints to dry / oxidize completely and age before
> toning... BTW,
> >> please note that I never tried gallic acid toning, only
> tannic acid
> >> and lead acetate. In any case, you "may" experience a little better
> >> contrast / more open highlights that way; try and see if that works
> >> better for you. ???)
> >> - Do you clear(!) your cyanotypes before toning? (A weak
> ...say, 1
> >> heaping dessert spoon per 2000ml... citric acid solution after
> >> development and peroxide, but before the last rinse works
> pretty well
> >> in clearing the print from unwanted iron residue = better
> contrast +
> >> cleaner highlights. Plus, IME, citric acid clearing gives a greener
> >> blue, and more green "may" give you results which are a
> little more
> >> neutral. ???)
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Loris.
> >>
> >>
> >> 2011/9/20 Francesco Fragomeni <fdfragomeni at gmail.com>:
> >> > Hi Gordon,
> >> >
> >> > The 3 drops Nitric Acid recipe you've cited is the one I
> used last
> >> night.
> >> > This morning I took another look at the prints and found
> that they
> >> changed
> >> > to more of a cool grey but still retained a bit of the
> purple hue (but
> >> much
> >> > more pleasing in color then the purple cast that they had
> right when I
> >> did
> >> > the process). I also noticed that the gallic acid reduces
> contrast>> > significantly and flattens out the image very
> noticeably. I think I may
> >> > experiment some more with this to see if Ican improve the
> results. I
> >> think
> >> > if you take the reduction in contrast into consideration
> when making a
> >> > negative and consequently the initial cyanotype print then
> there might
> >> be a
> >> > way achieve deeper blacks and proper contrast. Some testing
> will be
> >> needed
> >> > to figure this out.
> >> >
> >> > I haven't tried the ferrogallic process you mention but
> I'll look into
> >> it
> >> > and see if I can get all of the chemistry for it.
> >> >
> >> > I'll continue to experiment with the Nitric Acid recipe and
> I plan to do
> >> > some experiments with the coffee toning recipe I just got
> to see if that
> >> > does what I want without staining the paper base and
> bringing down the
> >> > highlights.
> >> >
> >> > Anyway, thanks for the ideas.
> >> >
> >> > -Francesco
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 9:05 PM, Gordon J. Holtslander
> <gjh at shaw.ca>>> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Have you tried this:
> >> >>
> >> >> To convert Cyano to black tones:
> >> >> Place print in solution of 3 drops Nitric Acid added to 1
> litre water
> >> for
> >> >> two minutes transfer to bath of 14g Sodium Carbonate +
> 160cc water -
> >> leave
> >> >> till image disappears and then reappears with an orange
> tone transfer
> >> print
> >> >> to third solution of 14g Gallic Acid + 160cc water - black
> tones will
> >> appear
> >> >> wash 30 min.
> >> >>
> >> >> perhaps the ferrogallic process would work;
> >> >> (from Photographic Facts and Formulas 1940)
> >> >>
> >> >> ferric
> chloride 50g
> >> >> ferric suplphate
> (basic) 25g
> >> >> tartaric
> acid 45g
> >> >>
> water 500 ml
> >> >>
> >> >> Dissolve and add
> >> >>
> >> >>
> gelatin 25g
> >> >>
> water 250cc
> >> >>
> >> >> soak gelatin for 30 minutes and dissolve
> >> >>
> >> >> Development details are not given though
> >> >>
> >> >> Gord
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On 9/19/2011 9:14 PM, Francesco Fragomeni wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> I received a coffee toning recipe a few minutes ago
> that I haven't
> >> tried
> >> >>> before. Examples look pleasing. I'll be trying this soon.
> Anyone have
> >> >>> success with this?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> -Francesco
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Mon, Sep 19, 2011 at 7:32 PM, Francesco Fragomeni
> >> >>> <fdfragomeni at gmail.com>wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Hi all,
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I've been working for some time to achieve a black
> cyanotype but to
> >> no
> >> >>>> avail. I mean true black and grays, not the purples,
> eggplants, and
> >> other
> >> >>>> hues that can be achieved rather easily. I am 100% sure
> that it is
> >> >>>> possible
> >> >>>> because I have seen examples in private collections. I
> have also seen
> >> a
> >> >>>> few
> >> >>>> rare examples (unsubstantiated) on the web but I've been
> unable to
> >> >>>> initiate
> >> >>>> conversations with anyone who has made one successfully.
> I've tried
> >> most
> >> >>>> of
> >> >>>> the toning recipes and none of these achieve anything
> close to what
> >> I'm
> >> >>>> looking for plus they have a tendency to stain the paper base.
> >> Tonight I
> >> >>>> tried the nitric acid (nasty stuff so be careful)/
> sodium carbonate/
> >> >>>> gallic
> >> >>>> acid recipe which is purportedly capable of rendering a black
> >> cyanotype.
> >> >>>> This recipe produced more of a dark grayish purple in
> the shadows and
> >> a
> >> >>>> much
> >> >>>> more obvious purple cast to the highlights. Now this may
> be worth
> >> >>>> experimenting with again because my tests were based on
> re-soaking
> >> >>>> already
> >> >>>> dry prints rather then making fresh ones which could
> possibly make a
> >> >>>> difference (I couldn't make new prints because I'm
> waiting on a
> >> printing
> >> >>>> frame to arrive to replace my unusable one). Can anyone
> here offer
> >> any
> >> >>>> insight into how to achieve the illusive black
> cyanotype?? It would
> >> be so
> >> >>>> unbelievably appreciated. Thank you!
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> -Francesco Fragomeni
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> ______________________________**_________________
> >> >>> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/**listinfo<
> >> http://altphotolist.org/listinfo>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Gordon J. Holtslander
> >> >> gjh at shaw.ca
> >> >> ______________________________**_________________
> >> >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/**listinfo<
> >> http://altphotolist.org/listinfo>
> >> >>
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
> >>
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Alt-photo-process-list | http://altphotolist.org/listinfo
>
More information about the Alt-photo-process-list
mailing list