From: Christina Z. Anderson (tracez@mcn.net)
Date: 09/14/00-09:42:31 AM Z
Man, I just love this thread! Thank you Rod and Greg, Gary, Judy, Jack, and
others for your very eloquent and right on dialogue on the nude. I, in
fact, am keeping those comments for reference. It is so intriguing to hear
men argue this point. I agree with all of you, actually. That's the hard
thing about this topic is that there are many sides to the discussion that
all possess truth. (and Helmut Newton's power babes are just that: powerful
women, but ONLY powerful in a sexual way that is in relation to a male
viewer feeling powerless toward them but probably getting a charge sexually
out of that situation. I think he is an excellent photographer but I don't
feel comfortable existing in his "space"; all I can think about is spiked
heels grinding raw flesh of the opposite sex...)
The thing that bugs me as a woman, having just graduated from the
university here with a degree in painting and a degree in photography, can
be described by this experience: I was in art class, painting from the nude
as usual. Now, in Montana, mind you, of the myriad times we painted from
the nude there were only 2 times that I remember painting from the male form
(and let me tell you, one of them.....oh, no I should keep it clean...).
Why is this? Is there truly a proliferation of females comfortable with
posing nude and not males; is the female body the preferred form to draw
from? I personally think female is norm and there is a stigma attached to
males modeling nude MUCH moreso than women. Not true in a large city, you
could say? I have been accused of being small town (grew up in Baltimore)
but I betcha this is true most places unless the art schools have some sort
of "equal opportunity" program in place. But the one time I got really
annoyed is that we usually had these two women who modelled frequently for
us who both are probably in their mid 40's, and one time a student (friend)
of mine left the class because these women were not "inspiring" to him. Oh,
you could say this man was an exception to the rule, but the bottom line is,
how do we as people feel when we no longer are "inspiring" to the opposite
sex? As Susan Sontag says, old age is "ob-scene" or off-scene, a still
great tabu in the art world.
Now, I'm sure this anecdotal story will cause a barrage of "Oh, no this
is not the case at OUR art school; we get fat and thin, old and young
models...." but really, if we are honest with ourselves about it, it's true.
Why is it that I as a woman find older men very sexually appealing
probably 20 years further agewise than most men find women sexually
appealing? Do you know what I mean? You can explain this biologically I
suppose in that men well into their 80's would still be able to father a
child and women not much past 45....in other words, is all this age/beauty
stuff cultural or biological? Is it changing? I find in the artworld there
has been change and acceptance of less stereotypical modes of beauty, but
certainly in mass culture this is not the case. Can I be accused of
"whining" because I am in my mid 40's? Or is it justifiable to look at this
issues?
<snip>, Greg Parkinson comments, below:
The issue is that it has appeared for a long time that the only people
who were doing the responding were men, and the people causing
the responses were attractive naked women in submissive poses.
I think you can see why women, when looking at art, could become
annoyed with the whole thing.
Things are changing. There are still lots of issues but they are more
complex and (for me) center around basic questions of objectification,
power, and trying to look clearly at what sorts of depictions of
people are not considered acceptable/normal/interesting and why.
<snip>
This so nicely sums up the whole question, Greg. You have a great way
of summing up the bottom line. And, I think the key to all of this is
awareness that, as Judy says, nudity is not neutral, it carries certain
"givens" with it, and to look at those givens and question them--are they
still our reality and why?--is valid.
Chris
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