From: Christopher Lovenguth (zantzant@hotmail.com)
Date: 08/20/02-02:32:46 PM Z
Shannon I would have to say just about every example you mention I saw a
peer do in my BFA program which I graduated from in 1997. That's the reason
these teachers say it's been done before. I had a friend that was dealing
with her sexuality and did the same cliché images you mention in all sorts
of formats. She notice early on during critiques that she got more responses
from peers when she did nudes and semi-voyeuristic work then when she did
anything else. After a couple of years her work became more shock then
anything. My instructors tried as they might couldn't even break her out of
it. I personally even wrapped myself up in plastic and attempted to "break
out" of it (used my hands not a knife), thank god my instructor pummeled me
for it! Then there was the young mother with a new child photographing her
child nude in the bath tub. There was this guy putting female nudes in
landscape trying to "incorporate the body with nature". Another landscape
person was showing "man's" invasion on nature. I had a friend that would put
tons of make up on and photograph herself in color all the while taking
makeup off layer by layer in each image...etc. etc. etc. etc.....need I go
on?
When you are an instructor (which I hope to be someday) seeing this semester
in and out for years it must get frustrating. I think this sort of stuff is
totally fine in intro classes but should totally be discouraged by the
instructor for anyone in the department because there are thousands of
students out there doing the same thing. Teachers have to be blunt and cruel
if the student wants to make it after school.
It's fine to dislike academia but what you experienced doesn't really sound
out of the norm nor detrimental. Maybe it was for you personally which you
have every right to be bitter about, if it wasn't the experience you
expected. But I think you are giving less credit to your instructors then
they deserve. Have you actually asked them why they teach the way they do?
You might be surprised at the answers.
I think the reality is these instructor know how competitive it is outside
academia for artist and they know there is very little time to push these
students to the level they need to be at if they want to be a living artist.
Pushing them means getting them over the everyday sort of ideas and images
and in to their true feelings and emotions where things are less easy and
comfortable.
>From: Shannon Stoney <shannonstoney@earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca
>To: alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca
>Subject: Has this been done before? Really? Show me.
>Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 13:24:14 -0700
>
>Diana,
>
>It's hard to talk about these things without being in the presence of the
>images under consideration themselves. I know what you mean by safe beach
>sunsets, pictures of pets, et al. But people in my class had gone way
>beyond that, yet they were still being castigated over and over again with
>the "that's been done before" rap. I'll try to describe the kind of work
>that was being done.
>
>One person was trying very hard to deal photographically with issues having
>to do with her sexuality and relationships with men, a difficult topic and
>one not easy to photograph "about." She tried over and over again
>photographing herself nude in different ways--color, b and w, sexy, not so
>sexy, gagged with plastic bags even --each time to be told that "it had
>been
>done before," or the other golden oldie, "what is your point here? well,
>we're not getting that." By the end of the year her work had completely
>degenerated, and she was no longer even making photographs, but simply
>zeroxing and transferring to newsprint stuff out of sex manuals! (By the
>way, this was very well received.) I think it's sad that she was
>discouraged
>from continuing with her much more ambitious project.
>
>
>Another young woman was attempting to translate her interest in landscape
>photography away from pretty nature scenes, to the Houston urban landscape.
>She would bring well-crafted pictures of freeway overpasses, etc, and be
>told, of course, "that's been done before." She too got very discouraged
>at
>getting shot down each time she tried ANYTHING, and in the end was making
>very little work.
>
>Another young woman was trying to portray her frustration about living at
>home, being ready to graduate but not quite having flown the nest yet. She
>photographed herself nude behind a wall of cellophane, attempting to cut
>the
>cellophane with a knife. You could sort of see her body but not clearly.
>Ok, maybe not the clearest metaphor in the world, but she was really
>trying.
>And what was she told? "That's been done before." By whom? Where? Show
>me!
>Of course that never happens. This woman had gotten off to a slow start
>and
>had finally done something sort of ambitious. After this failure, she went
>back into hiding again and didn't come out the rest of the semester.
>
>Yet another woman was trying to deal with the issue of body image and
>makeup
>and fixing yourself up to be attractive to men. She put some sort of latex
>makeup on her face and then photographed herself in front of the mirror
>peeling it off. Some of these images were quite grotesque and a little
>shocking, enough to be "edgy." But, of course, it's been done before. We
>should know that by now.
>
>I could go on and on. By the end of the semester I was beginning to
>suspect
>that since the teachers don't know what to say, they trot out two or three
>stock criticisms. Speaking of taking the easy route: it saved THEM from
>having to think. And, I can count on one hand the number of times they
>said
>anything positive about somebody's work, or pointed out a strength that
>somebody could build on.
>
>Maybe these things HAD been done before. But if they had, whose fault was
>it that these students didn't know about this work?
>
>The photo history teacher, meanwhile, who doesn't come to our studio
>critiques, was puzzled as to why the students seem so downcast and
>demoralized, and why they didn't seem to have their heart in their studies.
>In other words, the demoralization was obvious to people other than myself.
>
>Perhaps dwelling on the failings of this particular department is
>irrelevant
>to the larger discussion, but I have gotten the feeling from talking to
>people at other schools that this sort of lazy critiquing goes on in a lot
>of art departments. My partner says it's a form of hazing, like the
>gruelling residency that doctors go through. But young doctors are made to
>feel that eventually they will be good at what they are bad at now. That
>doesn't happen in a lot of art schools.
>
>--shannon
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