From: Judy Seigel (jseigel@panix.com)
Date: 08/27/02-02:01:54 AM Z
On Mon, 26 Aug 2002, epona wrote:
> And there are also those photos of women who are clothed but still set off
> some sort of internal alarm. For Judy it was Charis straddling the chair.
It's actually a rather sweet picture, but it simply struck me that they,
all those famous Weston females, had their legs spread -- as do most
fashion photos of women these days -- also if you notice aimed at the
crotch... It's a kind of tic, a reflex, like "say cheese," and by now a
cliche -- albeit a crude one. In fact the point, so to speak, of the photo
is the crotch... (Hard to understand how it sells dresses.) I don't admire
it in either fashion or "art" photography.
> You can't really *see* anything but her slip yet it disturbed Judy all the
> same.
Doesn't matter if you "see anything" -- what's to see, she has a surprise
up there? My point is it's pointing. These are times when everything is
sexualized -- Calvin Klein underwear rides through the city on buses, et
al... -- very much to the detriment of young people who lose their period
of latency, which explains a lot if anyone cares, which they don't.
However, I do believe in "the discourse of art," I do not believe "it's
all in the work," never is (even John Berger knows that). It's in the
culture...which is to say, comment is crucial.
> There is a photograph by a photographer I know who usually does very
> nice still lifes, but has a photograph of a woman in shorts and shirt
> casually sitting with her leg crossed, ankle on her knee. The frame covers
> only about her waist to said knee, lens pointed squarely at her crotch.
> These pictures make you wonder about the photographers' intent.
What's to wonder?
> I wonder if there are more female nudes than male because some find the
> female figure more beautiful? Because there have historically been more male
> image makers than female, or should I say, more male image makers
> *published*, who naturally find the female form more beautiful? This can
> also have little to do with desire - I would much rather look at/photograph a
> woman's body than a man's any day because I find the female form more
> appealing, and last I checked I was straight but not narrow. No offense
> gentlemen, I just find the female figure with her smooth organic curves more
> aesthetically pleasing. Though I have taken several nude photographs of my
> male friend - a few of them pretty good - but none of his crotch.
OK, here's my psychoanalysis (from party of one) about why UNTIL LATELY
we've seen few if any sexualized male photos not homosexual or aimed at
homosexual market: that's the taboo of men looking at, even touching
other men. Much has been said & written about that (the cost overrun is
vicious hazing in all-male fraternities) -- but until lately, & probably
still, the limit of touch between men is a punch in the arm.
That's THIS culture in this day. If you look at photo relics of 19th
century there were often affectionate poses male with male NOT homosexual.
Women for various reasons have not experienced this taboo, so they can
enjoy art of the female body as men can't of the male body -- tho that
seems to be much more culturally sanctioned these days... so may even
change.
Why the greater taboo for men? I would guess greater fear of
homosexuality (which accounts for gay bashing).... women accept
affectionate physical contact with and looking at other women without such
fear. Girls don't grow up in constant fear of being "dike-y." Tom boy is
actually good. But guys who know how to mix a salad or dress neatly will
get called "faggot." NY Times mag recently had poignant story of a
highschool student tormented by his classmates as "faggot" & generally gay
bashed (tho he was "straight") because he figure skated.
> I am also curious as to hear Judy's opinion on Helmut Newton? I have some
> male photographer friends who say he takes pictures of women in power, though
> from what I have seen of his work I am not so sure I agree...
Helmut Newton is fabulous... great... hilarious. Ditto his power babes.
> There, I *think* I've organized all my thoughts.....
If so, you've done better than I have... thanks.
Judy
>
> Cheers,
> Christine
>
> > --
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious.
> > It is the source of all true art and science. He to whom this
> > emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and
> > stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead; his eyes are closed."
> > -Albert Einstein
>
>
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : 09/19/02-11:02:50 AM Z CST