From: Shannon Stoney (shannonstoney@earthlink.net)
Date: 12/28/02-12:06:48 PM Z
Judy, you are right. There are definitely two topics going on here: whether
men and women should pee outside; and how to interpret a photograph. Let's
abandon the first as it is off topic. But maybe you'd like to talk some
more about why you chose the topic of men peeing outside for a series of
photographs?
(Also, one little practical tip: when you go out in cold weather and wind,
wear a heavy wool skirt with other skirts under it, not a caftan. The wool
skirts stay down. Also I suppose you could put weights in the hem. This
used to be a common sewing practice. There were little thin chains that you
could sew into the hem. This might work for a dark cloth ! )
>> But these anthropological, historical, mythical and global meanings are
>> relevant to art. Indeed they are what gives any image its richness.
>
> But as noted, you skip between art and reality to suit, which doesn't
> promote whatever argument you're making, IMO.
You are right that that was a problem with this whole discussion: it was
really two discussions. But, they are related. Ancient myths are based on
real life dilemmas, and metaphors draw their power from real experiences.
When Ezra Pound wrote, "The apparition of these faces in a crowd/ Petals on
a wet, black bough," he was thinking about a real apple tree he had seen,
maybe, with white blooms on it, and about the faces of real people in the
metro on a dark, wet day. He connected the two things in a beautiful way,
and enriched our view of subway riding, and of apple trees, forever.
Some old stories are hard for us to understand, though,
because our lives are so different from the lives of ancient humans, so the
metaphors in them don't "work" quite as easily. But
those of us who live at least part of the year a little closer to the earth
sometimes suddenly realize what these old stories are about, sometimes while
we're peeing outside. It suddenly occurs to you that your urine and feces
really are fertilizer and do make things grow. After all, you notice how
big the plants are around a cow pie. And watching the importance that dogs
(female as well as male dogs) attach to marking their territory with their
urine makes you wonder if unconsciously people do that also. People are
animals too. You can learn a lot about yourself from watching dogs and
other animals, and from observing the growth of plants, and the seasons.
Then when you are reading in the evening, you notice that ancient people
thought about these things also. Then in your perusal of a photography
book, you might see a contemporary image that incorporates all of those
observations and thoughts. Wow! It all hangs together. This seems
exciting to me rather than offensive. Making these connections between the
personal and the mythological, the human and the animal, the everyday
problem and the art image, the contemporary and the ancient, is what art is
all about.
> Now we're talking art again.
Let's keep doing that.
--shannon
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