Re: Gelatin (waterproofing)

Philip,

The drying oil, as opposed to non-drying oil, is the type of oil that will
dry rapidly (the non-drying one will eventually dry too but the process
takes years). Drying oil is usually usually used in polishing (as in
polishing piano, for example). It dries to a thin film. I think it can be
thinned to followed the gelatin image in some way. One type is Tung oil but
there are others available in hardware store. You could probably try any one
and see if the basic operation would seem to work.

The reason I thought about drying oil is there was another patent that I
read a few years ago. Someone was using this drying oil idea of making color
printing. He was suggesting doing collotype printing on a layer of dried
drying oil. There are several methods that is proposed. One is after one
printing has dried, another coat of drying oil is coated and the next color
is printed. Another method is to printing different colors on different
layers and then transfer them to a final substrate.

That gave me an impression that the drying oil could be very thin and
transparent. And the thought of it being oil repelling water suggests that
the gelatin would be released easier. Perhaps oiling would not even be
needed.

But of course I am talking from imagination and theory only. Hope it helps a
little. If it works, please let us know as we on the list are always
interested in different methods (although probably not many are doing
Woodburytype).

That patent that I mentioned (again, I don't have the title), but it is
available online and you can do a search. If I remember correctly, if you
search for collotype (in the abstract or the content) you might find it; but
the content is not related to your application in Woodburytype though. It
might be faster to just go out and buy a can of drying oil. :-)

Dave S

----- Original Message -----
From: "Phillip Murphy" <pmurf@bellsouth.net>
To: <alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 6:37 PM
Subject: Re: Gelatin (waterproofing)

> That sounds like a positive direction. I'm wondering what oil or
> combination of oils would dry to a film without causing loss of
> detail in the highlights of the matrix. I know that both the Woodburytype
> and the Stannotype required light oiling and removal of the excess before
> the gelatin-pigment mixture was poured into the mold. This of course
> prevented the gelatin from sticking to the metal surface. I believe that
the
> Heimsoeth method did not require additional oiling during printing. Thus,
> eliminating another step in making a Woodburytype print.
>
> I'm looking at readily available polymers at the moment:
> http://www.aquaseal.com/map-seal.html
> It may prove to be too thick of a coating for this process however.
>
> A substance is needed that will penetrate the gelatin and leave a micro-
> thin layer on the surface. I'd like to hear more about the drying oil
idea.
>
> -best regards,
>
> Phillip
>
> Dave Soemarko wrote:
>
> > Would diluted drying oil work? It would coat the gelatin layer and form
an
> > film on top of the matrix. Being oil, it will repel the water-based
gelatin
> > in later operation as well.
> >
> > Dave S
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Phillip Murphy" <pmurf@bellsouth.net>
> > To: <alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca>
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 12:00 PM
> > Subject: Re: Gelatin (waterproofing)
> >
> > >
> > > Andrew Atkinson has created work in England using photopolymer plates.
> > > They are used as "masters" for creating the printing plate.
Photopolymer
> > > molds would, like gelatin relief molds, need to become "waterproof" in
> > > order to use them as Woodburytype molds.
> > >
> > > Dried gelatin can withstand many tons per square inch of pressure
without
> > > distorting as Woodbury discovered. However, this quality isn't
necessary
> > > when you consider that a final Woodburytype print is created with very
> > > little pressure. Woodbury's original press consisted of two sheets of
> > > glass sandwiching the mold, gelatin and paper. Wearing of a hardened
> > > and "waterproofed" gelatin plate is not known since little information
> > exists
> > > regarding the method.
> > >
> > > Nonetheless, using "waterproofed" gelatin is the basis of the
Heimsoeth
> > method
> > > which was patented around the turn of the century as Andrew Atkinson
> > discovered.
> > >
> > > This would be a German patent issued around 1900 for Heimsoeth & Co.
> > > Would anyone on the list know of or have a copy of this Patent?
> > >
> > > all the best,
> > >
> > > Phillip
> > >
> > > Dave S wrote:
> > >
> > > > If you are thinking about hardening and waterproofing the gelatin to
be
> > used
> > > > as the mold, I think the gelatin might not have enough strength for
that
> > > > even after it is waterproven.
> > > >
> > > > There is a patent about using modern material for doing
Woodburytype. I
> > read
> > > > it a few years ago but I forgot the title. You could probably do a
> > search on
> > > > woodburytype and find something.
> > > >
> > > > I think photopolymer (either liquid or pre-manufactured plates) can
be
> > made
> > > > to work as mold of Woodburytype. It's worth experimenting, but
that's
> > just
> > > > my "feeling."
> > > >
> > > > Dave S
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Phillip Murphy" <pmurf@bellsouth.net>
> > > > To: <alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2003 10:41 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: Gelatin (waterproofing)
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Gary,
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm investigating the potential of a couple of methods of
> > > > > creating Woodburytype plates for casting pigment images.
> > > > > One is the Stannotype process that was invented by Woodbury,
> > > > > and the other is the Heimsoeth method which came later.
> > > > >
> > > > > best regards,
> > > > >
> > > > > Phillip
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Gary Nored wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On 21 Dec 2003, at 7:51, Phillip Murphy wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Is it possible to prevent a dried gelatin layer from taking up
> > > > > > > moisture from the atmosphere? Is it possible to prevent
> > > > > > > water in contact with the layer from swelling the gelatin?
> > > > > > > (In essence, waterproofing the gelatin)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Phillip,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't mean to pry, but Im so curious! Why do you want to do
this?
> > > > > > Are you seeking a conservation measure? Or, even better, do you
> > > > > > have some exquisite new gelatin process in the works?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > Gary Nored
> > > > > > http://home.centurytel.net/Gary_Nored/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
Received on Wed Dec 31 18:17:43 2003