Platinum Palladium Speak (RE: Trivia time: room temperature solubility of platinic acid)

As the day grew longer, I realized that I too fell into the trap of speaking
as if everyone did platinum printing like I do. That is to say, when I use
the term platinum prints, it should read 50% platinum salt (potassium based)
and 50% palladium (could be a mix of sodium and ammonium, but sometimes also
lithium) however they are all used at .7M . And of course you KNOW that I
make my own ferric oxalate ; )

But you all knew that right : )

Just like I am supposed to know that you mean sodium based palladium mix at
X% because that is the way you always do it.

EJ Neilsen

Eric Neilsen Photography
4101 Commerce Street
Suite 9
Dallas, TX 75226
http://e.neilsen.home.att.net
http://ericneilsenphotography.com
 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Neilsen [mailto:e.neilsen@worldnet.att.net]
> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 8:37 AM
> To: alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca
> Subject: RE: Trivia time: room temperature solubility of platinic acid
>
> Have you tried it with platinum? I can assure you that Platinic acid will
> change the contrast of coating mixture substantially even with platinum
> within the solution from standard potassium based platinum salt.
>
> Eric Neilsen Photography
> 4101 Commerce Street
> Suite 9
> Dallas, TX 75226
> http://e.neilsen.home.att.net
> http://ericneilsenphotography.com
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Clay [mailto:wcharmon@wt.net]
> > Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 8:12 AM
> > To: alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca
> > Subject: Re: Trivia time: room temperature solubility of platinic acid
> >
> > The problem is that using Na2 as a contrast agent only works with
> > pure palladium prints. Any platinum in the mix and the Na2 reverts
> > from the +4 oxidation state to the +2 oxidation state.
> >
> > Yes, it will still cool the tone in a lithium palladium print.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Dec 9, 2005, at 7:57 AM, Eric Neilsen wrote:
> >
> > > Maybe in my brevity I should have included a platinum (oops
> > > palladium) terms
> > > like the recent Gum thread. When I used Na, it meant Sodium the
> > > element;
> > > when I used Na2 that was in reference to the contrast agent. Those
> > > would
> > > have two different impacts on a print.
> > >
> > > Na2 can also be part of the chemical expression for the palladium
> > > salt,
> > > Na2[PdCl4]. That is not how Na2 was being used here.
> > >
> > > Clay, have you see your mixed prints, platinum and palladium,
> > > showing the
> > > same quick cool down? Or only those where the only metal salt was
> > > Na2[PdcCl4]? And have any of you, seen a significant cooling of a
> > > print made
> > > with NH4 as your base for the palladium solution? Or for lithium?
> > >
> > >
> > > I agree with everyone about Na2 - it takes only a small
> > >> amount to
> > >> significantly cool down a palladium print, ceteris paribus
> > >
> > > I haven't seen it with my ammonium palladium prints. It may be that
> > > with all
> > > palladium prints made with sodium based palladium only, that ceteris
> > > paribus, applies. I would also add that before one can start
> > > attributing
> > > too many characteristics to a particular part of a palladium print,
> > > all
> > > components need to be listed and accounted for. The ferric oxalate
> > > will play
> > > a roll in the color of your print. The full interaction of all the
> > > components have not been tested by me recently, but about 6 years ago,
> > > sutble differences in color could be achieved by using a ferric
> > > oxalate from
> > > B&S, The Formulary, Artcraft or my homemade brew.
> > >
> > > The color shift may in part be due to interactions not based on
> > > sodium but
> > > pH changes. We all wait your test.
> > >
> > >
> > > Eric Neilsen Photography
> > > 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
> > > Dallas, TX 75226
> > > 214-827-8301
> > > http://ericneilsenphotography.com
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Clay [mailto:wcharmon@wt.net]
> > >> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 5:33 AM
> > >> To: alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca
> > >> Subject: Re: Trivia time: room temperature solubility of
> > >> platinic acid
> > >>
> > >> I'll let you know. The stuff is still in a small plastic bag in
> > >> the
> > >> form of crystals. So experimentation is forthcoming.
> > >>
> > >> I agree with everyone about Na2 - it takes only a small
> > >> amount to
> > >> significantly cool down a palladium print, ceteris paribus.
> > >>
> > >> Clay
> > >> On Dec 8, 2005, at 11:46 PM, Eric Neilsen wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Well, Yes. Perhaps my point missed both you and Sandy. Does
> > >> the Na2
> > >>> produce
> > >>> prints of warmer color than prints made using Platinic Acid,
> > >> where
> > >>> the Na is
> > >>> replaced in the compound by H. Discounting the effect that PT
> > >> would
> > >>> have on
> > >>> the image tone by cooling it down a bit, and since the same
> > >> amount of
> > >>> platinum is in both the magical Na2 and in Platinic Acid,
> > >> what then
> > >>> accounts
> > >>> for any difference in image color?
> > >>>
> > >>> So Clay, have you used both? What say ye?
> > >>>
> > >>> Eric Neilsen Photography
> > >>> 4101 Commerce Street
> > >>> Suite 9
> > >>> Dallas, TX 75226
> > >>> http://e.neilsen.home.att.net
> > >>> http://ericneilsenphotography.com
> > >>>
> > >>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>> From: Kerik [mailto:kerik@kerik.com]
> > >>>> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 5:52 PM
> > >>>> To: alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca
> > >>>> Subject: Re: Trivia time: room temperature solubility of
> > >> platinic
> > >>>> acid
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 17:18:43 -0600, Eric Neilsen
> > >>>> <e.neilsen@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> In fact I can see no reason why it wouldn't
> > >>>>> work as well or better than Na2. Better? More neutral. Na
> > >> has a
> > >>>>> tendency
> > >>>>> to warm up palladium prints, so I'd expect the elimination
> > >> of it to
> > >>>>> reduce the warmth of your print.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Hmmm... no. Na2 causes Pd prints to shift towards neutral.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Kerik Kouklis
> > >>>> www.kerik.com
> > >>>
> > >
Received on Fri Dec 9 19:10:44 2005