Re: Platinum Palladium Speak (RE: Trivia time: room temperature solubility of platinic acid)

Eric,

Welcome to the club of the sometimes confused and befuddled, but
otherwise gifted and talented, Pt./Pd. printers.

Sandy

>As the day grew longer, I realized that I too fell into the trap of speaking
>as if everyone did platinum printing like I do. That is to say, when I use
>the term platinum prints, it should read 50% platinum salt (potassium based)
>and 50% palladium (could be a mix of sodium and ammonium, but sometimes also
>lithium) however they are all used at .7M . And of course you KNOW that I
>make my own ferric oxalate ; )
>
>But you all knew that right : )
>
>
>
>Just like I am supposed to know that you mean sodium based palladium mix at
>X% because that is the way you always do it.
>
>
>
>
>EJ Neilsen
>
>
>
>Eric Neilsen Photography
>4101 Commerce Street
>Suite 9
>Dallas, TX 75226
>http://e.neilsen.home.att.net
>http://ericneilsenphotography.com
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Eric Neilsen [mailto:e.neilsen@worldnet.att.net]
>> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 8:37 AM
>> To: alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca
>> Subject: RE: Trivia time: room temperature solubility of platinic acid
>>
>> Have you tried it with platinum? I can assure you that Platinic acid will
>> change the contrast of coating mixture substantially even with platinum
>> within the solution from standard potassium based platinum salt.
>>
>> Eric Neilsen Photography
>> 4101 Commerce Street
>> Suite 9
>> Dallas, TX 75226
>> http://e.neilsen.home.att.net
>> http://ericneilsenphotography.com
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Clay [mailto:wcharmon@wt.net]
>> > Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 8:12 AM
>> > To: alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca
>> > Subject: Re: Trivia time: room temperature solubility of platinic acid
>> >
>> > The problem is that using Na2 as a contrast agent only works with
>> > pure palladium prints. Any platinum in the mix and the Na2 reverts
>> > from the +4 oxidation state to the +2 oxidation state.
>> >
>> > Yes, it will still cool the tone in a lithium palladium print.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Dec 9, 2005, at 7:57 AM, Eric Neilsen wrote:
>> >
>> > > Maybe in my brevity I should have included a platinum (oops
>> > > palladium) terms
>> > > like the recent Gum thread. When I used Na, it meant Sodium the
>> > > element;
>> > > when I used Na2 that was in reference to the contrast agent. Those
>> > > would
>> > > have two different impacts on a print.
>> > >
>> > > Na2 can also be part of the chemical expression for the palladium
>> > > salt,
>> > > Na2[PdCl4]. That is not how Na2 was being used here.
>> > >
>> > > Clay, have you see your mixed prints, platinum and palladium,
>> > > showing the
>> > > same quick cool down? Or only those where the only metal salt was
>> > > Na2[PdcCl4]? And have any of you, seen a significant cooling of a
>> > > print made
>> > > with NH4 as your base for the palladium solution? Or for lithium?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > I agree with everyone about Na2 - it takes only a small
>> > >> amount to
>> > >> significantly cool down a palladium print, ceteris paribus
>> > >
>> > > I haven't seen it with my ammonium palladium prints. It may be that
>> > > with all
>> > > palladium prints made with sodium based palladium only, that ceteris
>> > > paribus, applies. I would also add that before one can start
>> > > attributing
>> > > too many characteristics to a particular part of a palladium print,
>> > > all
>> > > components need to be listed and accounted for. The ferric oxalate
>> > > will play
>> > > a roll in the color of your print. The full interaction of all the
>> > > components have not been tested by me recently, but about 6 years ago,
>> > > sutble differences in color could be achieved by using a ferric
>> > > oxalate from
>> > > B&S, The Formulary, Artcraft or my homemade brew.
>> > >
>> > > The color shift may in part be due to interactions not based on
>> > > sodium but
>> > > pH changes. We all wait your test.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Eric Neilsen Photography
> > > > 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
>> > > Dallas, TX 75226
>> > > 214-827-8301
>> > > http://ericneilsenphotography.com
>> > >> -----Original Message-----
>> > >> From: Clay [mailto:wcharmon@wt.net]
>> > >> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 5:33 AM
>> > >> To: alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca
>> > >> Subject: Re: Trivia time: room temperature solubility of
>> > >> platinic acid
>> > >>
>> > >> I'll let you know. The stuff is still in a small plastic bag in
>> > >> the
>> > >> form of crystals. So experimentation is forthcoming.
>> > >>
>> > >> I agree with everyone about Na2 - it takes only a small
>> > >> amount to
>> > >> significantly cool down a palladium print, ceteris paribus.
>> > >>
>> > >> Clay
>> > >> On Dec 8, 2005, at 11:46 PM, Eric Neilsen wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>> Well, Yes. Perhaps my point missed both you and Sandy. Does
>> > >> the Na2
>> > >>> produce
>> > >>> prints of warmer color than prints made using Platinic Acid,
>> > >> where
>> > >>> the Na is
>> > >>> replaced in the compound by H. Discounting the effect that PT
>> > >> would
>> > >>> have on
>> > >>> the image tone by cooling it down a bit, and since the same
>> > >> amount of
>> > >>> platinum is in both the magical Na2 and in Platinic Acid,
>> > >> what then
>> > >>> accounts
>> > >>> for any difference in image color?
>> > >>>
>> > >>> So Clay, have you used both? What say ye?
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Eric Neilsen Photography
>> > >>> 4101 Commerce Street
>> > >>> Suite 9
>> > >>> Dallas, TX 75226
>> > >>> http://e.neilsen.home.att.net
>> > >>> http://ericneilsenphotography.com
>> > >>>
>> > >>>> -----Original Message-----
>> > >>>> From: Kerik [mailto:kerik@kerik.com]
>> > >>>> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 5:52 PM
>> > >>>> To: alt-photo-process-l@sask.usask.ca
>> > >>>> Subject: Re: Trivia time: room temperature solubility of
>> > >> platinic
>> > >>>> acid
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 17:18:43 -0600, Eric Neilsen
>> > >>>> <e.neilsen@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>> In fact I can see no reason why it wouldn't
>> > >>>>> work as well or better than Na2. Better? More neutral. Na
>> > >> has a
>> > >>>>> tendency
>> > >>>>> to warm up palladium prints, so I'd expect the elimination
>> > >> of it to
>> > >>>>> reduce the warmth of your print.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> Hmmm... no. Na2 causes Pd prints to shift towards neutral.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> Kerik Kouklis
>> > >>>> www.kerik.com
>> > >>>
>> > >
Received on Fri Dec 9 20:29:49 2005