Re: Proposition: Upgrade APP to an Online Community

It is a great list.
At times you find bull/
So hit delete.
As to people out side the US it shows here we can still say what we dam
please.
James
On Apr 27, 2006, at 12:37 AM, Dave Rose wrote:

> Dear Gordon:
>
> "Sense of community" my ass!
>
> This list is so far out of control it's not funny. You (and other
> so-called
> list minders) have allowed this list to degenerate into a hostile,
> back-biting platform that allows and encourages negative political
> commentary, ad-hominem attacks and other off-topic nonsense to
> flourish and
> thrive.
>
> I am sick and tired of the politics. I don't care. I am very
> offended when
> other list members use this forum to continually slam Bush and Cheney.
> For
> Gods sake, what the hell does it have to do with PHOTOGRAPHY? How bad
> does
> it look to list members outside the United States to constantly read
> this
> total crap about politics?
>
> I've been active on the Internet for over 10 years, involved in this
> and 3
> other hobby-oriented mailing lists. This alt-photo list is by far the
> worst
> in regards to off-topic crap and flaming.
>
> Gordon, you need to grow a spine and put an end to this nonsense.
>
> Best regards,
> Dave in Wyoming
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gordon J. Holtslander" <holtsg@duke.usask.ca>
> To: <alt-photo-process-l@usask.ca>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 11:58 AM
> Subject: Re: Proposition: Upgrade APP to an Online Community
>
>
>>
>> I recognize that a mailing list is not the ideal forum, but I think a
>> web
>> based forum is worse.
>>
>> I think a web based forum would lead to a disjointed epheremal
>> discussion
>> - with people randomly joining and leaving the discussion. It would
>> become even less focussed with even more offtopic material. Does
>> anyone
>> remember the usenet photo groups? disjointed, random, often mean and
>> ugly.
>>
>> The dialogs that take place here are valuable.
>>
>> The list for all it faults, has built a sense of community, and
>> continuity
>> that no technology can usurp. This is the most valuable thing of this
>> list. I think it would be lost if not done as a mailing list.
>>
>> If somone can come up with a better way of creating a forum with the
>> same
>> sense of community, continuity and commitment I would welcome it.
>>
>> I would not run the list as a yahoo mailing list - I would only use a
>> mailing list service that I have significant control over. I had
>> considered moving the list to a hosting service where I could run the
>> list
>> manager of my choice, but this could not be done cheaply. The list
>> has
>> such a hight volume that it could not be done on an inexpensive shared
>> hosting account. It would have to be done through a co-location
>> service.
>> These cost at least $150.00 per month. It would be necessary to add
>> a lot
>> of advertising or subscription fees. This would add a lot unwanted
>> information, or limit the access to the list. I don't like either
>> option.
>>
>> The University of Saskatchewan is supporting this mailing list and the
>> archive space - neither of which could be done elsewhere without
>> considerable expense.
>>
>> I would love to tie in some web based features - a wiki, a common
>> image
>> gallery. None of these can be supported over the long term cheaply.
>> If
>> there is a way of providing a more or less permanent location for
>> these I
>> would have no reservations over using them.
>>
>> I don't pretent to "own" the "alt-photo" presence on the internet. If
>> anyone would like to set up a different forum, they are free to do so.
>>
>> I do think this list has developed a very good sense of community.
>> This
>> isn't my doing - but due to the overwhelming sense of cooperation,
>> collaboration and mutual respect of its members. I don't think this
>> should be squandered.
>>
>> Gord
>> List Manager
>>
>> On Tue, 25 Apr 2006, Michael Koch-Schulte wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> This list is great, but this list is crazy (and constantly acting
>>> like a
>>> patient off their meds'). Why is this? I participate in a lot of
>>> lists
>>> and online groups. I've noticed, very few have the ability to make
>>> blood
>>> boil/run cold like this list. It seems to come in waves. But that's
>>> passion for you. The reason I stay subscribed to this list is mostly
>>> because of the vast wealth of experience and talent found here, with
>>> few
>>> exceptions. Most of those exceptions are people like me -- those just
>>> trying to learn something (maybe one day I'll be able to teach
>>> others a
>>> thing or two who knows).
>>
>>> The problem is this: the alt-photo-process list is a one-room
>>> school
>>> house, and it's getting crowded. Can you imagine a campus where
>>> they
>>> threw the agriculture and fine-art faculty together in the same
>>> building? With no walls?! Never mind the rest of the faculties!
>>> There's a reason they put them in different areas. (By my second
>>> year
>>> I found out it's mostly, it's so they don't try to murder one
>>> another,
>>> or accidentally sleep with a student from the wrong faculty).
>>> Lately,
>>> I've been noticing that the competition to this list (read:
>>> alternativephotography.com and APUG) are becoming stronger and
>>> stronger. Why is this? Could it be that interest in the subject of
>>> alt
>>> photography is growing? I have nothing agaist either of the
>>> aforementioned organizations, in fact I revel in them. Nothing
>>> wrong
>>> with a little competition, it's suppose to keep us on our toes,
>>> right?
>>> I touched on the problem once before. Mail lists are an older
>>> technology. Pre world wide web. Not an older photographic
>>> technology
>>> (which we love), but an older tele-communications technology
>>> (somebody
>>> else's bag o' fun no doubt, but not mine). The list needs new
>>> digs. It
>>> can be kept as a mail list for those that want to subscribe and
>>> receive e-mails, but branch out and embrace the trend toward
>>> web-based
>>> online discussion groups/communities. They offer features which
>>> would
>>> enhance the alt photo process community. Technologically, this
>>> could
>>> go in one of two directions. The first would be to use an existing
>>> commercial system (e.g. yahoo groups) to host the community. The
>>> benefits would be that there would be a miminum of fuss, cost and a
>>> standard set of features. The down side is sovereignty, a word that
>>> touches a nerve here in Canada at least. Or, it could be a system
>>> similar to the ArsDigita software ie. photo.net, apug, or
>>> alternativephotography.com. Run it as a independent not-for-profit
>>> DOT-ORG with a board of directors, charge $10-$20 (voluntary) a
>>> year
>>> to join which could go toward covering back-end expenses like
>>> storage
>>> and upgrades.
>>
>>> The big advantage besides online galleries. Online forums. A simple
>>> way
>>> of keeping the pigs, sheep and cows from eating from the second year
>>> class' mixed media project called "Godel, Escher and Skittles" or
>>> whatever. There are things which make this community unique, but
>>> it's
>>> not the software that runs the mail system. I wish I could put it
>>> to a
>>> vote right now...but there's no way to do this.
>>>
>>> ~m
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>> Gordon J. Holtslander Dept. of Biology
>> holtsg@duke.usask.ca 112 Science Place
>> http://duke.usask.ca/~holtsg University of Saskatchewan
>> Tel (306) 966-4433 Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
>> Fax (306) 966-4461 Canada S7N 5E2
>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>>
>
>
Received on Thu Apr 27 08:08:59 2006